Photos provide the real picture on Tibet violence

Since the protests began, the Chinese government has consistently denied the high death tolls in Tibet. Exile groups claim as many as 100 people have died, many of them shot. The Chinese government claims only 16 have died, and they have denied shooting anyone.
Claims from both sides are difficult to verify because reporters have been expelled from the area.

But the real picture is just beginning to emerge. These photos clearly show people have been shot and killed.

photo one

photo two

photo three

photo four

photo five

photo six

photo seven


285 Responses to “Photos provide the real picture on Tibet violence”

  1. 1 Chaim March 18, 2008 at 4:37 pm

    When are people going to learn that guns and bombs are not the fucking answer? I’m boycotting the Olympics in Beijing. Too bad for the Chinese people as well. I’m sure their hearts are with the Tibetans…

  2. 2 Michael March 18, 2008 at 5:55 pm

    Horrible. The lies of the Chinese government need to be exposed, and the West needs to step up the pressure. Don’t sweep this under the rug.

  3. 3 tony March 18, 2008 at 7:43 pm

    get your facts right people… majority of the death in tibet are caused by the tibetian mob killing the ethnic chinese. The army has killed a few people, but only when they were fired or set upon. Why don’t anyone read the news instead of glancing it.

  4. 4 tony_dont_know March 18, 2008 at 8:19 pm

    Tony, if the Chinese told you that they landed on the moon first, I guess you would believe them too.
    Why would any government censure or block foreign news media DURING a raid? Obviously, to do anything they want, then report anything they want through their controlled propoganda machine.
    Even in the US, the news really isn’t the news but more-or-less entertainment.
    The Chinese propoganda machine wants you to believe that ethnic Chinese are dying, which may be true, but will they report the numbers of ethnic Tibetans dead? Probably not. Will they report the forced relocation of lowland Chinese to Tibet? No. They will claim that these Chinese businesses are making life better for Tibet. But better for who? The Tibetan society wasn’t based on dollars, but the Chinese business have forced capitalism into this region, creating economic strife.
    Read all sides of the news, from different countries before opening your mouth.

  5. 6 Mao Zedong March 18, 2008 at 8:55 pm

    Tony is right.

    Theyrrree Grrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeat!

  6. 7 peace March 18, 2008 at 10:04 pm

    never be part of a riot!

  7. 8 Free Tibet March 18, 2008 at 10:27 pm

    Tony is a moron. I bet he believes bush too.

  8. 9 bob job March 18, 2008 at 10:30 pm

    The only way this will stop is if the developed world stop dealing with them.. Probably is that is never going to fucking happen.

    I do feel reel sorry for all of the people in Tibet. not at all sorry for any of the Chinese. They actually have a big enough population to over throw their government. They just don’t realise it.

  9. 10 ben March 18, 2008 at 10:34 pm

    Yes, the Chinese media is obviously lying. Don’t believe anything they say. The Tibetan Center for Human Rights and Democracy is of course completely unbiased and would NEVER lie to us. Jesus, sometimes people are idiots. Both sides are obviously equally capable of distorting the truth and publishing false numbers. However, the hard fact is that the unrest was started by groups of Tibetans and that their protest was NOT peaceful. Was/is the Chinese government being overly harsh in trying to stop the riots? Maybe. But get it through your head that this isn’t a simple case of evil Communists violently suppressing innocent Tibetans for no reason.

  10. 11 a lawyer March 18, 2008 at 10:35 pm

    These pictures, as horrific as they are, does not support any of the things the comments are saying nor what you what them to imply.

    1. It does not confirm any body count, as the people in some pictures can not be identified, and there is, regardless, less than 16 bodies.

    2. The ethnic identity of the people pictured are not clear, so it could support both the Tibetan (that the Chinese killed many Tibetans) or the Chinese claims (that ethnic Hui and Han were the victims).

    3. There is nothing to indicate the time or place these were taken.

    If I wanted to be logically strict about it, it doesn’t even prove that people have been “shot and killed”.

    Horrific stuff, but evidence of little.

  11. 12 Norman March 18, 2008 at 10:36 pm

    “Horrible. The lies of the Chinese government need to be exposed, and the West needs to step up the pressure. Don’t sweep this under the rug.”

    This crap is not secret to anyone but the naive. China doesn’t give a crap. What will be done? Same that has been done to protect the many innocents who are slaughtered in Aftrica every year. Nothing.

  12. 13 Spaztick March 18, 2008 at 10:37 pm

    Just to comment here that Tony does have a point, the news hasn’t explicitly stated that the Chinese are killing rioting Tibetans and/or peaceful protesters. It’s implied but not directly stated, so until someone either gets enough information or the balls to confirm who shot who I’m holding my opinion.

  13. 14 caffeine March 18, 2008 at 10:37 pm

    This type of violence anywhere is horrible. And you know real bad stuff is happening when all the reporters get kicked out.

  14. 15 neo March 18, 2008 at 10:37 pm

    Only dumbass Americans believe bush.

    Although these deaths/injuries are unfortunate and probably could have been prevented, nothing lessen the crimes that the Tibetans have committed. They burned ethnic Chinese shops, cars, looted shops, police stations etc. These are hate crimes toward the Chinese people, and cannot be tolerated. If the Tibetans want anarchy, then the Chinese government should let them taste their own medicine.

    If this were to happen in the US, those people would be in Guantanamo bay.

  15. 16 Ryan March 18, 2008 at 10:38 pm

    Meh. People riot, then they die. Evidently they need to work on organization and armed insurrection if they don’t want to get mudstomped by the PLA. Honestly, I don’t care if the Chinese want to exterminate the Tibetans any more than I care if the Israelis steamroll the Palestinians. Just as long as we don’t send some kids from Arkansas and Michigan to go play “World Police” again. We fought for our independence, they can do it too.

  16. 17 ben March 18, 2008 at 10:40 pm

    And I love bob job’s clueless comment. Big enough population to overthrow their government? Why the fuck would they overthrow a government that has drastically improved their standard of living over the last three decades? Us Americans hysterically point to human right abuses and lack of democracy as proof that the Chinese government is evil and incompetent. But for an average Chinese person, what good is democracy if it means going through economic disaster like the Russians like after the fall of the USSR? Governments will fall if/once it fails to improve the lives of its people. This is true of democracies and authoritarian governments alike.

  17. 18 blackman March 18, 2008 at 10:40 pm

    I bet good ol’ America has something to do with this tragedy.

  18. 19 joey March 18, 2008 at 10:42 pm

    i hope more people boycott the olympics

    more girls for me 😀

  19. 20 Station Agent March 18, 2008 at 10:44 pm

    I’m glad the French forces (that we would not have won the revolution without) didn’t feel the way Ryan does. People in other countries are just as important and worthy of life as we are.

  20. 21 Sus March 18, 2008 at 10:50 pm

    As china said, the west don’t really have any place to comment on Tibet. Fairly hypocritical if they do, allowing the illegal war and all that..

    Torture goes on everywhere, innocent people get killed all the time.

    No-one stood up to Burma when monks were being killed and trucked off, why would Tibet be any different?

    Our politicians don’t have any balls.

  21. 22 Antony March 18, 2008 at 10:52 pm

    Well America handed China there economy on a silver platter.
    Now America gives them immunity because they hold there economy in there hands. The Bush’s and the Clinton’s and other notable Builderberger’s like Cheney have said, China is a great example of how to run a country. So get used to it people, this is how the NWO shall be, China is a test case for us all. How could the west be so blinded, especially after WWII and the atrocities of Adolf Hitler. History is repeating itself, here we go again.

  22. 23 toolongtheysuffered March 18, 2008 at 10:54 pm

    this is a response to “ben”

    you said:
    “Yes, the Chinese media is obviously lying. Don’t believe anything they say. ”

    Yep. I agree.

    “The Tibetan Center for Human Rights and Democracy is of course completely unbiased and would NEVER lie to us. ”

    Yep. I agree! 🙂

    “Jesus, sometimes people are idiots.”

    Yep. I agree. Except sometimes, they are not.

    “Both sides are obviously equally capable of distorting the truth and publishing false numbers. ”

    Yep. I agree. Everyone has the capability of lying. Except, that the Tibetans DON’T lie and the other side does.

    “However, the hard fact is that the unrest was started by groups of Tibetans and that their protest was NOT peaceful. Was/is the Chinese government being overly harsh in trying to stop the riots? Maybe. But get it through your head that this isn’t a simple case of evil Communists violently suppressing innocent Tibetans for no reason.”

    Actually, it is.

    The hard fact is the Chinese have no business being in these people’s country. And I have got it through my head that the Tibetan people are being murdered, raped, systematically moved out, families destroyed, thousands of Chinese forcibly moved to their country just to REPLACE them. It is actually, just exactly the Chinese Governement are being evil and violently suppressing Tibetans, and there is no reason good enough to be doing that to these people. End of story. You guys need to stop doing this. Now.

  23. 24 ben March 18, 2008 at 11:08 pm

    Ah shit, you’re right, the world IS completely black and white, how could I have forgotten? The Tibetans DONT’T lie and the Chinese ARE pure evil. It’s like Star Wars! One’s a Jedi and one’s Emperor Palpatine. Light and Dark, good guy and bad guy, all are clearly defined with no moral ambiguity whatsoever. Thank you, sir, for curing me of my foolishness.

  24. 25 Dunno March 18, 2008 at 11:08 pm

    I am not saying Chinese government is not lying but why should one trust what Dalai Lama said. When Chinese government reported there were 10 people dead, Dalai’s representative in New York told BBC reporter: “It is very hard to find out actually how many people died, but we think it is logical to assume at least 30 people have died.” Then the whole world quoted more than 30 people’s dead.

  25. 26 been_there March 18, 2008 at 11:08 pm

    i just returned from dharamsala and know first hand the open and giving nature of the tibetan people. i have spent time with people who walked from tibet through nepal and on to india to get out of the situation around Lhasa.

    the question i find myself asking is…do i feel strongly enough about the tibetan people to give up my chinese manufactured goods? Do you?

  26. 27 Daniel March 18, 2008 at 11:11 pm

    I believe the pictures, and I’m sure people have been innocently killed on both sides, as tends to happen in these situations. But I think before people are quick to jump in fury at China and call for boycotting the Olympics, they should consider this:

    1) Has your government told its people about all the things it’s “CIA” or “FBI”-equivalents have done in the past?
    2) Your government may appear and sound more democratic and “western” than the Chinese Communist Party, but would it put up with separatists? You can call for policy change as much as you like, and that’s all ok, but don’t bring separatism into the equation. Does Russia put up with Chechen separatists? And maybe you think Russia also has a “communist” history. So what about the USA? Why did the Civil War happen? Why didn’t the North just let the South secede? The Confederate States took up nearly half the USA around 1861, and Tibet doesn’t take up half of China today. If you want to talk about ethnicity, then what about the Native Americans? Did the first “immigrants” to the USA not treat them more horribly than China has treated Tibet? But of course they don’t see it that way. They think they brought “modernization, education, and change” to the Native Americans. Any of this sound familiar?
    3) Finally, people may say those things happened a long time ago. Paradigms have changed and the definition of human rights are no longer what they used to be. Ok. There’s some truth in that. So what about Iraq? That’s recent enough. Iraq has never been a USA territory, for as far back as I can remember. So no one calls for a boycott of Olympics in the USA when they just go and invade and take over another country. We enforce our policies on them. We don’t care if they welcome us. Sure they’ve killed many of our soldiers, but we’ve also killed just as many of them. But that’s all ok right? That’s all ok so long as we still call ourselves “democratic” instead of “communist,” so long as we kill in the name of “justice” and not for “restoring order.”

    I’m not trying to argue that what is happening in Tibet is right. I’m not saying the Chinese government has not made wrong decisions. But once again, I would look at my own country and own government’s actions first before I’m quick to judge others. And at the root of all of this, no country’s government, no matter how much it tries to appear “democratic,” and no matter how long of a history it has, can tolerate or ignore the idea of separation from within.

  27. 28 ben March 18, 2008 at 11:13 pm

    Also, the topic of how justified the Chinese are in their occupation of Tibet is not all that relevant. The issue at hand is if the riots occurring in Tibet were started by Tibetans, if they were targeted at Han Chinese, and if the Chinese government had a right to respond to the riots. The answer to all three questions, I think, is yes. Whether they responded appropriately is a different question.

  28. 29 C March 18, 2008 at 11:15 pm

    When are people going to learn there is no such thing as “The answer”

  29. 30 Skeptic March 18, 2008 at 11:22 pm

    tony_dont_know said “Tony, if the Chinese told you that they landed on the moon first, I guess you would believe them too.”

    Yet you’d blindly believe the western media? Don’t be naive. This isn’t black and white. The naive western belief that Tibet is filled with peace loving Buddhist monks, calmly praying 24 hours per day, kneeling in prayer in opposition to the Evil Violent Chinese, just shows how easily you have been fooled by your own propaganda.

    The reality is that prior to the Chinese invasion the average life expectancy in Tibet was 36 years, 95% of Tibetans were born into slavery to the lamas (monks), and 95% of Tibetans were illiterate. No public schools, no clean water, no hospitals, most Tibetans living in extreme poverty, and a select few Buddhist monks living in luxury. That’s what Tibet was like before the Chinese Annex.

    The Chinese have done some awful things, there is no denying that, but they’ve also brought literacy and health to Tibet. China pours vast amounts of money into Tibet to build infrastructure like roads and schools and hospitals. There is no slavery and no taxes for the Tibetans. The Tibetans are treated better than the Han Chinese!

    I would have no qualms with “Free Tibet” if it meant introduction of democracy and wealth and safety. But that’s not what would happen. Tibet has no wealth, and they are bordered on all sides by nations that have (and will) invade them. Their infrastructure would collapse, Tibet would descend into theocratic fuedalism, and the abject poverty that plagued Tibet for 100s of years would return.

    NB: I am not Chinese or Tibetan. I’m just informed, unlike 99% of people who cry “Free Tibet” or “Boycott China”.

  30. 31 You're all wrong March 18, 2008 at 11:29 pm

    For starters, you’re all pretty retarded. First off, this is something happening in Tibet and China and seeing as how the U.S loves to stick their noses into everyone else’s business, it’s no surprise you retards care so much. Second, the U.S is in one helluva recession right now, so how about you stop worrying about China and Tibet, and realize there’s not a damn thing you can do about it. Bitch all you want, you won’t make a difference. The fact is that Tibet is under Chinese oppression, DUH, but the Chinese government does not need to be overthrown as some of you retarded radicals have stated earlier. The Chinese economy is growing at 11% each year, the U.S has slowed to about 2.3%. That means China > U.S. So keep up the China hate and boycotting the Olympics, I got new for you, IT WON’T MAKE A DIFFERENCE!!!!

  31. 32 Chicago March 18, 2008 at 11:30 pm

    dated PSes. last time i saw some of these pictures, it was on a Falunkung website accusing Chinese government of abusing their followers. and now they became Tibetans?
    it is easy to jump onto bandwagons without studying the historical background of this issue. but I think it takes more than knowledge and education to form an educated opinion. Because what you see or hear on the media is not always true or accurate, given if you still trust the media. yes, the media that only showed you the footages of american troops marching on Iragi soil, welcomed by Iraqi people, but didn’t show you the bombings, killings, and rapings. and did i mention that the u.s. government banned ALL international journalists except few selected american journalists reporting the invasion.

  32. 33 bobby March 18, 2008 at 11:34 pm

    tony_don’t_know: where do you get ur information? from the american government. You think they won’t lie about their standpoint just to make others believe. if u say china lies then so does ur government

  33. 34 Peter March 18, 2008 at 11:35 pm

    And how can you tell who is Chinese and who is Tibetan on those pictures?

  34. 35 xt March 18, 2008 at 11:38 pm

    its funny how quick people jump to conclusions with their own assumptions. nobody actually has an idea about how many death there are and who was mainly responsible for the death. as has been correctly said, the dalai lama has no way to know how many deaths there are, yet everybody believe him out of sympathy.

    now think about it: USA and its pro-israel policy? who cried for a free palestine? who cried for the dead arabs? sure palestine people resort to violence and terrorism, but is tibetans in this context any better?

    the way i see it: tibetans have lost their image as a oppressed, but still peaceful ethnic. in fact, its just the monk caste doing all the riots. its just the monk who has anything to gain from gaining independence. the common tibetan wont gain anything.

  35. 36 Joejoe March 18, 2008 at 11:41 pm

    Money talks, bullshit walks. Human rights, fuck it. It’s a term introduced by CIA. Even the sacret DaLai Lama was on CIA payroll until 1972. If you want to boycott Olympic, just go ahead! You’re not welcomed anyway! If you want mess with us Chinese, watch out your nuts and your wallet.

    I wonder why there is no exile Tibetan demonstration in African, South America, Mid East, East Europe… while there are Chinese consulate all over the world. It turn out they too want a better life. Just that the only means to support themselves is to live like a echoing parasite of rich white people!

    Is the world only consists of West Europe and North America? certainly not! Is the Olympic only for the rich white people? certainly not! If you don’t agree, fuck yourself and your puppy Tibetan exile!

  36. 37 Tara March 18, 2008 at 11:44 pm

    Chinese media is obviously lying

  37. 38 Taiwanese March 18, 2008 at 11:45 pm

    Daniel, Thanks for the voice of reason. As a Taiwanese and recently returned from Tibet (not just Lahsa, but in and out on land), it will be in my best “ethnic” interest to watch China burn, but the truth is that anyone whose country has a military presence in a foreign land should stay quiet, unless you are plotting a revolution (but then, you should probably then stay EXTRA quiet..)

    I can see how we are looking to take a moral high ground when ever we can since Taiwan is small and 150km is not a great distance to keep someone away, but if you guys are shitting bricks, I am starting to be worried…

    However told those unfortunate souls that China won’t shoot because the Olympics, they should be shot!

  38. 39 Realist March 18, 2008 at 11:45 pm

    I think the first problem is that any of you actually put complete belief in anything you see on broadcast news. Modern journalism is nothing but sensationalism for the sake of ratings. I don’t doubt that horrible things are going on, but let’s not be naive here. The only people that truly know what is going on are the people that are living it! The rest of you are only getting the story the networks want us to hear and see.

    And come on, arguing on a blog? It’s like running a race in the special olympics, even if you win, you’re still retarded.

  39. 40 Stop_Interfering March 18, 2008 at 11:46 pm

    I don’t understand this, people want us to get out of Iraq – and then get involved in Tibet? The American public doesn’t even know what they want. And these protests by the tibetan people are not the non-violent approach that the Dalai Lama even endorses, they need to understand that you can fire with fire when you are fighting with a furnace, the situation will just get hotter.

    I think the “West” needs to worry about the “West”, and the Tibetans need to take a different approach, one that is synonymous with time and not short violent tactics, it’s only going to make the boot bigger and heavier for themselves.

  40. 41 Peter March 18, 2008 at 11:46 pm

    Who is Chinese and who is Tibetan on those pictures?

  41. 42 D March 18, 2008 at 11:48 pm

    From New York times’ interview with the Dalai Lama:
    Dalai Lama said he wants more autonomy as oppose to separation for Tibet. Tibet wants to be its own country? Uhnn?
    Dalai Lama said he would step down as the head of the Tibetan exiled government if his people in Tibet doesn’t calm down and conduct peaceful demonstrations. Chinese government just killing peaceful demonstrators? Uhnn?

    I don’t understand how can people care so much about things like this happening in another country, while their own country is doing the same thing?

  42. 43 Howling Winds March 18, 2008 at 11:52 pm

    I have spent almost a month in Tibet. The Chinese invaded the country 50 years ago and have suppressed, tortured and killed the Tibetans ever since the invasion. The Tibetans had developed a unique culture sitting on the roof of the world. For over 1000 years they studied Mind in their monasteries and came to an understanding of our place in the world that has (and perhaps) never will be surpassed. The Chinese have been involved in destroying the culture since the invasion. To them the Tibetans represent a culture in direct opposition to their cultural revolution. And Tibet is the headwaters of most all the major rivers of Asia which supplies water to 1/3 of the Earth’s population (1/2 of Asia). The Chinese are trying to completely destroy the Tibetan culture so that they have free access to the minerals and water resources of the country. This is genocide.

    On the first day in Lhasa we were approached by Tibetan students in the marketplace who told us directly and without hesitation about the crimes of the Chinese. Then when biking through the country we heard the same thing over and over. The people love the Dalai Lama and it is a crime to even own a picture of him. The Dalai Lama has been the spiritual leader of the people for nearly 700 years and the Chinese demonize him in attempt to break the culture of the people.

    The world needs to see the crimes of the Chinese and speak out for the Tibetans. If we do not the entire world will lose a great tradition of wisdom and knowledge.

    Whenever you suppress people hard enough and they eventually speak out they will address their anger toward those who represent the oppressors. A sorry fact but it appears that some of the Tibetans

  43. 44 Craysh March 18, 2008 at 11:55 pm

    You’re forgetting something: Tibet was annexed against their will. The Confederate states tried to break off of the union they were apart of. There’s a difference. If you want a closer analogy, take the Lakota Indians who have decided to break off the treaty with the United States and become their own country:
    Also, the people who originally came over here weren’t American’s. They were English, Spanish, French, Portugese, etc, etc. The Native Americans were though to be less than human, but we now know that’s not the case.
    As for us going into countries like Iraq, we’re not conquering those countries. you say that we’re not there to restore order, do you really think order would return if we left? Chaos would ensue and they may end up with a government far worse than Hussein. People say we should have never gone in there, but in the same breathe complain that we should be going into Darfur for the EXACT SAME REASONS. The differences here are that before the U.S. went into Iraq, the country was horrible save for people tied with Hussein and the Oil for Food fraud, whereas Tibet was perfectly happy until China imposed themselves on it’s people.

  44. 45 Joejoe March 18, 2008 at 11:55 pm

    Taiwanese, don’t forget your ancesters are Han Chinese. If it’s your personal interest to watch China burnt. I suggest you start with yourself with anything with trace to China. Burn the properties inherit from your ancesters, your family tree, your properties, your passport(It’s labeled Republic of China), your cash (There is a picture of famous Chinese president). In the end, don’t forget to set yourself on fire too!

  45. 46 George Bushy March 18, 2008 at 11:56 pm

    I deplore the ecent that is happening in Tibet. We must liberate those poor $#@* like what we did in Iraq and what we will do in Iran. We must install the righfull owner who has a master plan to bring the level of teh country to greater heights (have you seen the master plan Tibetian Yuan goes to an exchange of USD 1 to Yuan 3). Fantastic, flot the Tibetian currency, open their import wallet, they can pay with mules and donkeys. Why suffer under the rich chinese junk food full of grease. Eat US McDonald and Kentucky that the way to go. I will send by by CIA Director to Tibet soon to see what weapons may be needed there to complete teh liberation

  46. 47 Shaan March 18, 2008 at 11:58 pm

    It’s nice to see people having more complex understandings of the China-Tibet situation. I’d also suggest people give the wikipedia entry on Tibet a quick read to see what the history is between Tibet and the rest of China, because it’s very complicated and political. Basically it comes down to (I believe) that leaders of Tibet had long recognized China’s emperors/leaders as their own as well, but cooperated with relative peacefulness because China gave Tibet a high degree of autonomy, and previous Dalai Lama’s had moral as well as political authority.

    The problem came with Mao Zedong, the PLA and Communism in 1959. They “liberated” Tibet and at first Tibetan leaders went along with it. But then for various reasons the Party decided land reform needed to be carried out in Tibet as well, and then things went all to the crapper. So this is what I don’t understand now, why the Chinese government won’t try to work with the current Dalai Lama to provide greater autonomy for Tibet without giving them outright independence, something for which there isn’t much historical precedent and for which there would be little economic benefit. Give them the political and cultural freedom they seek, and they’ll be plenty happy to stay a part of China, China will suddenly look much better in the eyes of the world, and pretty much everyone wins.

  47. 48 Tyler March 18, 2008 at 11:58 pm

    i agree that guns and bombs are pointless Chaim, but unless you are an athlete or world leader…i don’t think they will care if you boycott the Olympics haha

  48. 49 Garth March 18, 2008 at 11:59 pm

    Aren’t we all so easily led by propaganda. The only question whose servant do you wish to be? The term “Free Tibet” is ludicrous since Tibetan pheasants living under the Lamas were not enjoying a free society but held under serfdom in a theocracy. We haven’t seen such a situation in western society since the 16th Century. If you will be so kind as to notice, it’s the clerics, not the peasantry who are rioting. they wish their property restored, namely the poor whom they would own along with the land under Tibet’s former feudal system. Life under a socialist dictator isn’t perfect, but I’d prefer it to living in villainy as the property of the nobility, even if they wear saffron robes. Please think these things through before shouting “Free Tibet!” Always ask yourself, who is likely to be behind this when examining a viewpoint to espouse. Just because an idea sounds green, and liberal, and spiritual, it isn’t necessarily.

  49. 50 xt March 19, 2008 at 12:00 am

    you know the “talk to westeners about the crimes of the chinese government” approach was also used by falungong. in the end falungong turned out to be a cult not any better than scientology.

    just because a monk (!) talked to you doesnt mean everybody in tibet thinks the same way. hell, monks might be brainwashed by his religious perspective as well. i doubt that a non-monk tibetan wants a theocracy.

  50. 51 America F*CK YEAH! March 19, 2008 at 12:04 am

    I reckon yall know nothing at all. Trust me, im american and i know best. Fact: Chinese government are no good stinking communist liars. Hell I’ve met the dali lama myself and thats what he says. I have to say that based on my impervious logic and ungrounded beliefs, that tibetian are always non biased samaritans and present that facts as is just like fox news and that god blessed o’reily (god bless that good man’s soul). I mean after all the solution to this would be for america to dispatch team america into the heart of china, a place known as Taiwan where their centeral government resides. After all we did just agreed to hand over some billions of dollars to the defense department, im sure they can find another place to spend it on. DOWN WITH THE COMMIE!!! FREE TIBET!!! AMERICAN #1

    Colonel Sanders

  51. 52 Westerner March 19, 2008 at 12:12 am

    I’m also glad that certain posters here have some type of special clairvoyance that allows them to tell what nationality or race other posters are. I just wish i was birthed with such a gift. Tibet protests, China intercedes with force, some people dislike the handling of the situation, pro-china users decry such notions and start pointing the finger at the west.

    seems logical to me……..

  52. 53 Osama March 19, 2008 at 12:18 am

    Tony my son lick my blk ass and then only you’ll understand the truth….otherwise you are blind and you don’t know china killed thousand of chinese students in 90s’Now in 2008 They start the same by means of Tanks and Bullets….
    Your Dad

  53. 54 Matt Everett March 19, 2008 at 12:20 am

    If Tibet mob was so violent. Why aren’t there any pictures of dead Chinese soldiers or police ?

    The dead bodies speak for themselves. Anyone questioning that China would escalate to brute force … see Tienanmen Square.

    That was just a few years ago in the big scheme of things. Obviously China has a very strong desire to hold a grip on Tibet.

    If they revolt the communist leaders might fear their success to be contagious. Plus they know the west is just aching to help out Tibet.

    So, while brute force even for China is clearly a stupid idea, I think their authoritarian style of governing leads to these types of showdowns.

    When your talking about a place as oppressive as China, you don’t blame the few who fight back unless you want to look like some Nazi/communist sympathizer.

    It’s good to try to stay unbiased. But, sometimes you can’t hide behind isolationist desires for non-action and stand up and say.. DOWN with Hitler, DOWN with Stalin, down with child slave labor, execution justice, media blackouts and complete cultural tailoring.
    It’s like a politically correct version of the Labor Party and you blame the Tibetans for fighting back.

    Why not just label them insurgents and terrorists while your at it.
    Do you think British would have sailed home if we hadn’t starting shotting back. If the minutemen hadn’t used non conventional tactics , aka guerilla warfare, we’d not have stood a chance against the organized military of Britain.

    There is nothing inherently unjust about resorting to violence to thwart your oppressor who used the same violence and covers it with national media.

    All oppressive governments worked like this at one time and those that fought back forged the path for democracy today. What Monarchy
    can you name that has free press ?

    They EVEN call themselves the People’s Republic.

    I think china will slowly give in to democracy or fall, so I have real worry about them in the long run. However, for the Tibetans, I can see how spending a few generations living in oppression would be worth fighting against.

    Plus, what are you telling me. The Dali Lama is helping cover the murderous Tibetan rampage ?

    So, someone log this Chinese spy’s IP address and report them to the FBI.

  54. 55 Voilence March 19, 2008 at 12:29 am

    Voilence is the only means to solve the tibet issue……..
    United Nation is F*****g
    They never solve the issues… …. Kashmir, Pelistian, Kosovo, Sudan, Dafur, Tibet, Burma, Cuba, Sri Lanka….
    many More

  55. 56 xt March 19, 2008 at 12:31 am

    before you start with “china will have to give in to democracy or fall”… have you lived there, talked with the people there?

    im pretty sure the huge majority would defend the government as it is now.

    call it brainwashing if you want. ignorance is bliss. happy people is enough for a country to prosper

  56. 57 Anonymous March 19, 2008 at 12:33 am

    How can you prove that these photos are really from Tibet, from the recent events, and the person lie there is not faking???

    The name of this website clearly showed your point, how can you prove that you are fair and objective?

  57. 58 Joejoe March 19, 2008 at 12:35 am

    I wonder what had trigger the Tibetan to start riot at this time of the year, not last year, not the year before? They could do it during 1996 Taiwan crisis. They could do it during 1998 when US bombed Chinese embassy in Belgrade. They could do it during 2001 when Chinese fighter collides with US spy plane. If the Tibetan really fed up with Chinese government, they should riot everyday like Palestinian against Israel.

    1. Maybe the Tibetan exils don’t like Olympic at all. They are against Chinese Olympic committee from collecting seed of Olympic torch from Himalaya. It’s perfect ok for dislike Olympic, problem is that you shouldn’t interfere others for being like Olympic.

    2. Maybe these Tibetan exils are jealous about other Tibetans lives a better live inside Tibet. What make things even worse is the depreciation of US dollar and appreciation of Chinese Yuan. Poor Tibetan exiles! Uncle Sam will raise your salary only when you bark louder.

    2. Maybe DaLai’s angry for not getting what he’s asked for when negotiating the terms of surrender with Chinese government in the past years. As a way to release his anger, he released bunch of dogs to bark around the world. The problem is, you shouldn’t use other people’s blood to benefit your interest.

    Dalai and Tibetan exils, why don’t you think outside the box. Your sugar daddy is really sick. It’s time to live on your own back. Stop live like human parasites!

  58. 59 Daniel March 19, 2008 at 12:45 am

    It is truly disturbing to see fellow Americans post here with such foul language and one-sided views. As an American, I have met many people who refuse to look deeper into the cause of an issue, or consider both sides instead of treating everything as black or white. However, I do not believe all Americans are so ignorant.

    I understand the reason most people here are prejudiced against China is because their government is Communist. The word itself turns off people, as the West had fought the “communists” for most of the 20th century. Any kind of issue where it’s “blank vs. Chinese government,” and automatically people are inclined to speak up for “blank.” Why? Because they’ve already got it so ingrained in their minds that the Chinese government is pure evil. Period. People have cited here on numerous occasions articles and evidence that the Chinese government have violated human rights in the past. I agree fully. But what about Tibet before the Chinese took over? How about looking up their human rights record? You’d be very shocked and quite disturbed. Were they a democracy or anything close? Once again, like I mentioned in my earlier entry, that doesn’t make what’s happening right now right. However, it does show that situations tend to be more complex than we usually give them credit for. Just because someone hasn’t yet shown you the actual pictures or given you any second opinion doesn’t mean such things don’t exist.

    Most recently, the USA has occupied Iraq. Yes we did it for “their own good.” We only “had their best interests in mind.” We “freed them from the oppression of a dictator.” We killed a lot of them in the process and continue to do so, but who cares right? It was all for a noble cause. Except the Iraqis aren’t exactly grateful. But who cares we say? Those ignorant people don’t know what’s good for themselves. So the Chinese government has said the exact same thing about Tibet. Except now we denounce them. Why? It’s simple: because they are communist. Who cares if we did the same thing as them? They’re communists, and so they’re wrong and horrible and there should be no further justifications.

    This is what I say when I’m disturbed my fellow Americans are so single-minded. They will accept nothing that differs from themselves or their views. And they justify this attitude with “patriotism.” “All you others who don’t agree with me are wimps, spies, or retarded.” America was built on the principles of tolerance, and now it seems so many today cannot even tolerate a slightly different opinion, even if it comes from their fellow countrymen.

  59. 60 Chicago March 19, 2008 at 12:53 am

    Tibetans have a huge population in China, while the riot was started by only a few extremists. It will not cause a chain reaction because it simply does not gain sympathy from majorities of Chinese or local Tibetans.
    I am Chinese American, been here long enough to learn both sides’ stories, governments and opposing sides. Have you ever thought about how people around the world think about us americans and our government? you guessed it right. just like how we perceived China, naive people with an evil government.

  60. 61 gudbhote March 19, 2008 at 12:55 am

    I wish they boycott Olympic, and gol all the preparation and expense in waste. Anyway athletes don’t want to participate in the polluted dump site.

  61. 62 zw March 19, 2008 at 1:00 am

    the chinese have been oppressing the tibetans against their will for decades now. yes, the tibetans might have started a riot against the chinese, but it is in response to years and years of systematic oppression. the chinese response – killing a number of tibetans, perhaps as many as 100, if some claims are to be believed – is just another example of the chinese boot heel grinding down those desperately fighting for their freedom. remember Tienanmen Square?

    oh, and for those of you doubting the validity of the pictures, take a look at these ones BBC saw enough truth in to put on their website:

  62. 63 Riise March 19, 2008 at 1:03 am

    there are 5milion Tibetans in China,thats not huge
    and if USA and EU/Nato states decide to boycott Olympics still there will be 150 countries participating so…you are free to boycott.More medals for us who will be participating

  63. 64 blowme March 19, 2008 at 1:10 am

    real pictures of dead tibetan

  64. 65 Joejoe March 19, 2008 at 1:26 am

    Watch out, the anger flamed by your wild white westerners will eventually consume your order of the world. Did you hear that American Blacks are shouting God Dxxn America in their Sunday sermon? Did you hear the poll that more than 40% Iraqis agree to in attack Americans? Did you see your pay check shrinking and health insurance coverage vanishing? In the meantime, you still support a gigantic military and promote your fake democracy around the world with these echoing parasites who only cares about their small world.

    DaLai, you’re the biggest hypocrite on the world, your’re not preaching peace but war, your action endanger your own kind as well as others. You should be ashamed yourself and stop blame your problem on the others!

    Tibetan exils, Dalai is not your savior but your master, your life is his property to spare. The highest form of freedom is the freedom of thoughts and ideas, obidience to a fake god doesn’t buy your ticket to heaven!

    Let’s make it clear, Tibet is our Chinese land, our ancester conquered it through their blood and sacrefice. Come to grab it with your walfare, only if you have second life to spare.

  65. 66 garf March 19, 2008 at 1:30 am

    ryan- very ignorant opinion. Why not care if the israelis “steamroll” the palestinians? Where do u think theyre getting their bombs from? sending us troops to die needlessly is besides the point. u seem to have this shitty attitude of lets make a mess and let them sort it out. I know cos britain did the same to northern ireland. Just cos u fuk off home doesn’t mean the problem is solved. Israel bombed the sh!t out of lebannon for not releasing detained spies. And why the hell should they have? in any other country the same actions would have been taken. Its called national security in america. Then they bombed their bridges stopping any aid going to the civilians who were also bombed. America sided with israel. I suppose its just a classic case of customer is always right.

  66. 67 batasablind March 19, 2008 at 1:31 am

    This is not a complex issue … there is nothing complicated about it. Tibet was a free country, was invaded by the Chinese and is occupied and colonized by them. Just like the white man colonized most of this world … but were eventually expelled, except from those areas where they outnumbered the locals … or decimated them like in Australia and New Zealand. The Chinese are following the same practice moving Chinese people to Tibet to eventually outnumber the Tibetans. The Tibetans have nothing in common with the Chinese … there language is different, there religion is different, and their culture is different. You would think that days of colonization are over … not really … Israel and China are currently actively perpetrating it with military might. Palestinians are in the news but people have forgotten Tibet. I urge the Tibetans to continue their war for liberty and I urge the Chinese to give freedom to the Tibetans … Chinese need to learn to respect others or the world will drive them behind the china wall … which is their true and original border. The Chinese have a warlord mentality and they would never see reason … by peaceful means … Tibetan monks should dump Dalai Lama and fight like the Palestenians do.

  67. 68 Chicago March 19, 2008 at 1:32 am

    Howling Winds March 18, 2008 at 11:52 pm

    why be ashamed of admitting you’re a Tibetan extremist, your word of choice has betrayed you.
    A little history lesson for you, my friend:
    Tibet has been a part of China for thousands of years, the World Wars and multi-national invasions overthrew the Qing dynasty, which was the legitimate Chinese government at the time, thus broke China into many regional warlords/landlords, followed by the World Wars was a civil war between the Communist party and the Nationalist party, in which the latter lost and fled to Taiwan. During that period of time, both parties claimed that they are the legitimate government to represent China, but neither had control over the entire Chinese territory. that was how Mongolia became independent. And because of that, there’s no representative from China to attend UN meetings, and the U.S. decided to give Diaoyudao(Senkaku in japanese) Islands and its surrounding sea territory to Japan. After the Communist won the civil war as well as the legitimate government body representing China in a whole, the new Chinese government then reclaimed lost territories from local warlords/landlords, which includes the ‘invasion into Tibet’ from over half a century ago that you mentioned in your post.

  68. 69 xt March 19, 2008 at 1:39 am

    if i was a native american, i would be either angry or just laugh cynically.

  69. 70 Joejoe March 19, 2008 at 1:54 am

    To fellow Chinese, just stop wasting your time on the detail of facts and history for these arrogant white men anyway won’t listen. Do what’s best for us, offer your help to the fellow Chinese who were hurt and lost their lives in the brutal Tibetan riot. Offer your thank you gift to the fellow Chinese soldiers on the front line. Contribute to Chinese Red Cross and project Hope. Don’t let their lie affect your judgement and always stand up to flight!

  70. 71 zw March 19, 2008 at 1:57 am

    Joejoe said: “Did you hear that American Blacks are shouting God Dxxn America in their Sunday sermon?”
    To be specific, Reverend Wright said “God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human.” Taking into account that he was in the middle of a heated sermon and using charged language, he’s right. I’m an American, and I can say that I am ashamed of my country for what it’s done to oppress non-whites since its birth hundreds of years ago. Native Americans, blacks, Asians (think of those who built the railroads and of the Japanese internment camps in WWII), Latinos… if you can think of a non-white minority in America, it’s likely that they’ve been unjustly oppressed at some point and are still at the butt end of racist white actions here in America.

    But that doesn’t justify what China is doing in Tibet. Yes, America has done many bad things that it should be ashamed of and that it has yet to atone for properly, but Joejoe pointing this out and criticizing it only makes it clearer that what China is doing is just as bad. It’s clear that what China is doing in Tibet is just as wrong as what the West has done to other countries throughout history.

    And saying “The highest form of freedom is the freedom of thoughts and ideas” is funny, considering how information is suppressed completely in China, like here where reporters are forbidden access to Tibet to see what is truly going on. China is banning access only because it has something to hide, and it can’t make claims to defend its actions until the foreign preses is allowed in and we can at least have some glimpse of the truth.

  71. 72 xt March 19, 2008 at 2:06 am

    suppressing press coverage is an established practise in crisis. just look at this thread: a few – possibly fake – pictures can incite all this discussion. now we know how western media works – entertainment and sensation-seeking. in all probability, the pictures that can be interpreted in the wrong way will be spread the most.

  72. 73 zw March 19, 2008 at 2:12 am

    “just look at this thread: a few – possibly fake – pictures can incite all this discussion. now we know how western media works – entertainment and sensation-seeking.”
    Getting pictures out there that show death and human destruction at the hands of a brutal government is far from “entertainment and sensation-seeking.” This is what the media should do – bring to our attention real issues that need to be addressed. Have you forgotten that photos of the carnage and injustice of American actions in the Vietnam War are what first spurred the movement to press the US government for withdrawal?

  73. 74 Jason March 19, 2008 at 2:19 am

    Quote “Too bad for the Chinese people as well. I’m sure their hearts are with the Tibetans…”

    Unfortunately Chaim you are wrong, I’m currently working in China and NONE of the Chinese people around me seems to support Tibetans’ act. They all believe Tibet should always be a part of China and any one who supports Tibet Independence act should be considered as a separatist.

    As for the claims from both sides about casualties, I don’t think we need to believe any versions of the story, this website is not an independent source either.

    From my experience in China the government here is no better or worse than the US government, or any other governments around the world. Most Chinese I met are pretty happier with their leaders/government than a westerner would think.

  74. 75 Joejoe March 19, 2008 at 2:30 am

    ZW, I’m glad you stay a clear mind that you’re really ashamed of your country which is the spot on difference between you and me. I am really proud of my country. I find it a waste of time of bring facts and history to the table because you never listen. Why not just go to China and see it yourself. There are too many facts that is ignored from your western media about the minority treatment in China. In fact, they are treated with super citizenship. They don’t subject to one child policy, we Han Chinese do. They can enter collage with lower grade, we Han Chinese cannot. They are guaranteed of government job in these minority autonamous regions, we han Chinese aren’t. Even on the point of law and order, their petty crimes won’t get punished, we Han Chinese will, they can carry long knifes on the street, we Han Chinese cannot.

    You really think we Chinese don’t know what’s going on over there? It’s really funny that you mentioned your media should be granted free access to these regions. Let me ask you, aren’t they report for a purpose? Since when did you see your media report China without a dyed glasses?

  75. 76 zw March 19, 2008 at 2:30 am

    “From my experience in China the government here is no better or worse than the US government, or any other governments around the world. Most Chinese I met are pretty happier with their leaders/government than a westerner would think.”
    The issue here isn’t whether or not the Chinese people are happy with their government.
    The issue, I think, is that at least 16 people are dead, whether Chinese or Tibetan, and that they are dead because of riots against Chinese oppression of Tibet.
    More people will inevitably die, both Chinese and Tibetan, if Tibet isn’t granted autonomy. The Chinese government being only as bad as the US government doesn’t matter – what matters is that people are dying and will continue to die if things aren’t resolved. And as all of the problems stem from the Tibetans chafing under Chinese rule, the only resolution would be for them to somehow gain their freedom.

  76. 77 zw March 19, 2008 at 2:39 am

    “It’s really funny that you mentioned your media should be granted free access to these regions. Let me ask you, aren’t they report for a purpose? Since when did you see your media report China without a dyed glasses?”
    Of course the Western media will report events from its own perspective. Everything is subjective. But with the Chinese government blocking access to the foreign press, only two perspectives are available – those of the Chinese government, and those of the Tibetan exiles. As both sides have a clear agenda and huge stake in the events in Tibet, they can by no means be expected to make reports that are even remotely objective. Allowing the foreign press into Tibet would give a much-needed third perspective.

    And the fact is, despite the supposed “super citizen” rights given to minority groups in China, there are still frequent protests in Tibet against Chinese rule and now, again, bloodshed. I think it should be obvious to anyone that the Tibetans are not happy with Chinese rule, “super citizen” status and all.

  77. 78 Dub March 19, 2008 at 2:40 am

    The very first Lama was installed by a Chinese army, and subsequent Dalai Lamas had recognized that they were a part of China and maintained close relations with Han leaders until the day Mao came along. The Lamas, who were wealthy (and corrupt) rulers at the time feared that the new communist party would divide their land amongst the poor in Tibet. This is the birth of the “Free Tibet” movement that you hear about today.

    (for those of you who love to shout “propoganda!”)

  78. 79 xt March 19, 2008 at 2:50 am

    its all nice when we can criticize about a far away part of the world, especially a region that will only be associated with tourism to us. sure, “cultural genocide”. well. for people living there, a steady income and good healthcare might be more important than culture that brought them nothing but slavery until 60 years ago. but omg the culture. guess what, culture doesnt fill your stomach, it doesnt prolong your life expectancy. culture maintained a theocracy. without culture, tibet probably would just be a piece of deserted land like most parts of africa to tourists.

    damn right. what is tibet to you? an exotic tourist destination. to those chinese people you are saying “free tibet” to, its part of their country.

    and yes. i can assure you that most people in china will strongly oppose an overthrow of the government. why? because china has been through so much in the last two centuries. mainly inflicted by those countries that are calling out for “free tibet” now. the government might not be the best, but it grants most people stability, safety and happiness. chinese people are pround that china made it this far from what it was like at the end of WW2. chinese people are proud that china as a nation exists over two thousand years as an unity.. saying “free tibet” is directly attacking this proud.

  79. 80 Joejoe March 19, 2008 at 2:57 am

    Well, why the regular Tibetans don’t start wide spread violence against Chinese rule as the Palestinian to Isreal. As I pointed out earlier, people over there are generally happy with their live. Their are getting good income from booming tourism from both domestic travelers and abroad. Chinese are big fan of Tibetan medicine and the traders make a good fortune out of it. Their culture is truely respected in China as there are no difference in between Chinese buddhism with Tibetans’. We in Beijing goes to Tibetan temple as well as others to pray for good fortune every year during the first day of spring fesival. We repect the language of minority and setup schools to teach their children with their own language. There are even minority only universities setup for higher education.

    I say the true purpose of “Boycott Olympic” is to “Hijack Olympic”.

  80. 81 Joejoe March 19, 2008 at 3:09 am

    Do you want to see how your media works? Then ask me why CNN delibrately cut off a portion of picture showing Tibetans throw rocks at passing Chinese military trucks, only displaying some others ran in the forefront? To them, only bad news is good news. Any prolong conflicts on the world garatteed their big profit and paycheck. Let’s say no war on earth, everyone lives a good live, CNN should be out of work. Remember, CNN becomes a world media when the first Gulf war broke out, it will continue to dominent if only there is war and blood on the planet of earth.

  81. 82 Howling Winds March 19, 2008 at 3:18 am

    Same old story. Money and power. China wants Tibet for its resources. The people of Tibet DO NOT WANT CHINA. Tibet prays. China preys.

    Tibet has a history of at least 1300 years of independence from China. In 821 China and Tibet ended almost 200 years of fighting with a treaty engraved on three stone pillars, one of which still stands in front of the Jokhang cathedral in Lhasa.

    In 1949 the idealogues from the Maoist Chinese government decided to attack their Buddhist neighbors to gain more territory and power. Same old story. Just like the Mongols, the Germans, the English and the Americans. Buddhists are remarkably peaceful people. The root of Buddhism is compassion.

    China wants world power. Water is the key to the future. Tibet is the key to the waters of Asia. Simple story. It will take the World to force China to give this up. Control of water is control of humanity. We are all water and we all share water. China seeks domination. The people of Tibet are simply pawns in China’s quest for power.

    Tibet should be declared a World Heritage Site, the Buddhist tradition should be allowed to flourish. The study of Mind allowed to continue and the waters and resources protected for all humanity.

    Wake up! We are all in this together. We all share WATER. And we are all humans and will live and die as a race. Throughout our history we have forever warred for territory, power and resources. Let’s create a new World Heritage Site on the roof of the world dedicated to all World Citizens!

  82. 83 max March 19, 2008 at 3:24 am

    DaLai Lama should die in hell~he is the real evil for both Chinese and Tibetans!!!!!

  83. 84 Andrew March 19, 2008 at 3:26 am

    It does seem worth pointing out that the American federal government does NOT represent the interests or values of the majority of Americans. Even when the system works as it should, a democratic government does not represent the values of every single citizen. The fact that the American government invaded Iraq and committed innumerable human rights violations does not mean that every American citizen condones or authorized these acts. As an American who writes my representatives, and has demonstrated against the war from the very beginning; as an American who values LIFE, LIBERTY, & EQUALITY, and who VOTES; as an American who FIGHTS against Corporate imperialism and third-world exploitation; WE HAVE THE RIGHT to SPEAK OUT against human rights violations made by other countries JUST AS MUCH as we have the right to speak out against violations committed by our own. Let it be known that my opinion is JUST as important as anyone else’s. HOWEVER we also need to be aware of WHY these protests are happening, and analyze the motivations on each side. Tibet has been occupied by China since 1951. In the intervening span of time, there have been valid accusations of genocide, along with allegations of attempts by the Peoples Republic to extinguish the culture and religious beliefs of the natives. For perspective, imagine America invading Mexico, forcing millions of our poorest people to move south, and then smashing down the roman-catholic churches and “detaining” anyone who disagreed. All in the name of “progress”. True, that example may be overgeneralized and simplified, but I don’t want to type a novel here. China is freaking out right now, because the Olympic torch will be traveling through Tibet, which leaves the door open for any number of fascinating international incidents. What we are seeing right now is China trying to tighten control over a region of oppressed and desperate people. Meanwhile, the oppressed and desperate people see this as their best chance to bring the horrors of Chinese rule to the worlds television sets. They are probably right, which is why the Chinese propaganda machine has kicked out all the foreign reporters and is painting the picture as they see it. This obviously isn’t the whole story, and it obviously isn’t the only story. I encourage everyone to do their own research BEFORE we attack each other over what’s going on. Then we can argue based on facts.

    What can we learn from this situation?

    It WOULD be kind of hypocritical of the American government to condemn China.. however, we PLAN on leaving. At least we HOPE we plan on leaving…

    Tibetan Buddhism is non-violent, so even if they ARE violently protesting, there is probably a DAMN good reason for it. And they are probably well within their rights as humans.

    China is known to keep a tight grip on the flow of information, especially when it makes them look bad. Now that we have the Olympics thrown into the mix, they must be going NUTS.

    As for the ethnic Chinese, it is generally not their fault they are there, and they can’t be blamed for their governments actions. On the other hand, their presence is part of the reason that the quality of life for the native Tibetans has dropped so significantly. Once again, it is the PRC that are to blame for that. It would seem they are just being caught in the middle. I bet they are getting screwed just as hard as the natives.

    What should we do? Protest, write letters, BOYCOTT, send money, PRAY PEOPLE. Just the simple act of caring can make a difference. In fact, simply digging and blogging is making more of a difference than anything else. In other words, KEEP IT UP INTERNET! WE are the ones CHANGING THE WORLD

  84. 85 Joejoe March 19, 2008 at 3:27 am

    According to your American standards of law and order, won’t the rioter on the LA street being shot at? If rioters throw rocks to National Guard troops on the street of New Orlean, won’t they be shot at? I wonder when did your media showing any picture of it? And when did you sympathize with the rioters in that occasion? I bet all of you were gasping with relieve that finally the justice was served and we can all be businese as usual.

    I too want say if the picture shown are indeed the rioters, justice is served!

  85. 86 Jason March 19, 2008 at 3:38 am

    Quote ZW “the only resolution would be for them to somehow gain their freedom.”

    Well, the word “Freedom” sometimes is not as sweet as it sounds:

    Mongolia used to be part of China and went independence before Communist Party got control over China, then what? Mongolian people are now suffering from destitution and dying to be back to China to share the fruit of China’s boosting economy.

    Hong Kong was sold to England 150 years ago, and if you ask whether Hongkong-nese ever felt bad about being run by a foreign government? Well 100 years ago maybe, but now, look what Hong Kong has become?

    The word “Freedom” means nothing if nothing comes after it. And if you think Dalai Lama is a better ruler than the Chinese Communist Party, I ask you to go to China and then think again.

    Personally I don’t think Tibet going independence will do any REAL good to Tibetans. No government can run Tibet better than the current Chinese government, a government who could feed a population of 1.3 billion people with an impressive 11% economic growth rate.

  86. 87 Joejoe March 19, 2008 at 3:40 am

    Andrew, you’re dead wrong on the leaving part. Don’t you see America is not only divided among Republic and Democrat, but also within the Democrat party and races. No matter what explanation Obama presents to general public, I say his political career is doomed, even worse than that of John Kerry. For Kerry at least he’s still a respected Senator. A veteran served his nation. Obmama is nothing but a lier, a people with double standards. He continuously lied about his relationship with his pastor. He lied about the inside compaign deal with his financial backer, who is prosecuted in federal court. He’s not a uniter, he’s a divider. With all the bad news on the Democrat side, do you really think the Democrat could win back White House? I really doubt it. If McCain wins, you guys are going to stay in IRAQ as long as it takes. Maybe your grandchildren will see the light in the end of the tunnel.

  87. 88 Joejoe March 19, 2008 at 3:44 am

    Or you can name the Iraq part of United States, immigrate white American over there and take away the Iraqi land. Drill all Iraqi oil and leave a baren land for good. With 100 year in Iraq and spend money like this, you’re forever doomed!

  88. 89 microraptor March 19, 2008 at 3:59 am

    Would anyone have any recommendations about where I can go to find out more about this situation?

    I’d like acquire a more objective and deeper understanding of what is going on, including the history of this conflict, soI can get a better sense of where the propaganda ends and the real story begins.

    Is there anyone out there presenting at least a basic explanation of this situation that both sides agree is fairly accurate?

  89. 90 dingo March 19, 2008 at 4:01 am

    As horrible as this is I still find it hard to call China anything in light of whats happening in Iraq. We’ve killed over 1 million innocent civilians there in the name of democracy. Can we really point fingers about human rights violations?

    Lets take out our own trash first….

  90. 91 tashi March 19, 2008 at 4:05 am

    nothing new! China at it best!

  91. 92 Anonymous March 19, 2008 at 4:17 am

    michael, I must say that the west should really sort it’s own mountain of feces into it’s appropriate receptacles before it s#!+$ so much we all drown.

  92. 93 zw March 19, 2008 at 4:20 am

    In response to Jason, I subscribe to the belief that people have a right to choose their governments for themselves.
    It’s clear that the Chinese government isn’t wanted by the Tibetans, and that in itself is a justification for demanding Chinese withdrawal and for protestation – yes, perhaps even violent protestation – against Chinese rule, which is, obviously, rule by oppression, rule by the sword.
    If the Tibetans don’t want Chinese rule, then they have a right to do whatever they deem necessary to fight against it. Then, once China withdraws, they have a right to choose their own government. Whether that will be a return to rule under the Dalai Lama is pure conjecture at this point. That waits to be seen.

  93. 94 Pappione March 19, 2008 at 4:20 am

    JoeJoe, when I read your words and then listen to my heart. I hear the sad echoes of the “May Fouth Movement”.

  94. 95 You guys fail March 19, 2008 at 4:26 am

    So 7 photos. Until they show us photos of more than 16 different people, there is absolutely no proof of more than 16 people dying.

  95. 96 zw March 19, 2008 at 4:27 am

    Quote Joejoe “If McCain wins, you guys are going to stay in IRAQ as long as it takes. Maybe your grandchildren will see the light in the end of the tunnel.”
    Quote Dingo “As horrible as this is I still find it hard to call China anything in light of whats happening in Iraq. We’ve killed over 1 million innocent civilians there in the name of democracy. Can we really point fingers about human rights violations?”
    Maybe the US will remain bogged down in Iraq, and, yes, there’s no way around it – the decision to invade Iraq was 100% wrong, resulting in the deaths of thousands of innocents. But the mistakes of the US government do not justify atrocities on the part of the Chinese government. Their imperialistic domination of Tibet is just as wrong as the US invasion of Iraq, and just as unjustifiable.

  96. 97 Chicago March 19, 2008 at 4:35 am

    microraptor March 19, 2008 at 3:59 am

    if both sides could agree on something, why would there be a riot?

    like many chinese americans or people familiar with this issue, we tend to have a different opinion than the general american public, which get to hear only one side of the story. the best way to learn this matter would be going to China, talk to Chinese people and listen to their opinions of what’s happening in their country. and i suggest you not to mention tibetans or taiwanese as different nationalities than chinese, because that is like saying texans or californians are not americans. Most, if not all, Chinese will take that as an insult. Good Luck with your research

  97. 98 JC March 19, 2008 at 5:31 am

    You American hypocrits, while you are all complaining about how Chinese military is shooting at rioters, why don’t you take a deep look at atrocities done by American soldiers in Iraq, or Israelis to Palestinians. How about Dafur? It seems like it’s the media, not your personal conviction, is guiding all your hate toward the country your leader wants you to hate.

  98. 99 Joejoe March 19, 2008 at 5:36 am

    zw, I found it ironic to see how you compare US foreign policy with China’s domestic policy. We didn’t invade any country, Tibet was, is and always shall be part of China. Tibet issue is our domestic issues. When a country setup diplomatic relationship with another country, it’s a norm of international law that the country being accepted shall have its the national boundary respected. China and its current government is accepted by nations around the world. Therefore its sovereignty shall be accepted and respected. Only one reason why your Americans always forget about that is because most of your high school graduates couldn’t even name the country neighboring North Dakoda.

    Only ignorance population elected the dummist president on earth, not once, but twice!

  99. 100 Joejoe March 19, 2008 at 5:56 am

    Let’s ask fans of American Idol to see if he/she really cares about China. I bet a high percentage of them couldn’t even tell where it’s on the World Map. Doesn’t they care about Tibetan people? Never heard about it! Does they know Dalai Lama? Maybe he’s another celebrity like Richard Gere. It’s the Chinese people who really cares about Tibet, and working together with locals to build a prosperous society along side with our booming economy.

    You’re world’s mightiest country on the world, yet your own infrastructure is decaying. Mind your own business, would you?

    You’re spending billions dollar on Iraq while your health care system becomes less affordable to general public. Mind your own business, would you?

  100. 101 Jason March 19, 2008 at 5:59 am

    Quote ZW “It’s clear that the Chinese government isn’t wanted by the Tibetans,”

    It’s ONLY clear Chinese government isn’t wanted by Tibetan Extremists/Separatists, Dalai Lama and off course, you ZW.

    But is it really the will of majority Tibetans to force China out of Tibet? 60 years ago may be yes, but today, do Tibetans really want to sacrifice peace/rapid economic growth for a vague, un-promised concept of freedom/democracy? I really doubt that.

    Quote ZW “and that in itself is a justification for demanding Chinese withdrawal and for protestation – yes, perhaps even violent protestation – against Chinese rule, which is, obviously, rule by oppression, rule by the sword.”

    Firstly no one is saying the current Chinese government is perfect, Americans have enjoyed their democracy for over 200 years but the Chinese only finished their domestic war like 50 years ago, when a country is still struggling to provide for 1.3 billion people, you expect “democracy” to function perfectly like US/UK or any other developed countries?

    If you’ve been to China, you’ll see China is changing rapidly, not only economically, but politically as well.

    Ten years ago when I first visited China, there were only a couple of newspaper, run by the government off course. Today if you go to major cities like Beijing, Shenzhen or Shanghai, you feel like you are in a city no different than New York, London or any other FREE city in any country.

    Secondly no one is saying Tibetans enjoy the same right as Chinese do at the moment, it’s still a long way to go and Tibetans should still fight. But the best way and maybe the only way, is through non-violent methods.

    The bottom line is: You want China to withdraw from Tibet, you are being unrealistic. Even Dalai Lama himself is only asking for full autonomy now (Which is the currently happening in Hong Kong). Violent clashes now in Tibet only make things worse.

  101. 102 中国人 March 19, 2008 at 6:22 am

    Joejoe 和 Chicago, 看了你们的帖子,非常激动,你们是中国人的骄傲,我希望每个有血肉中国人都应该努力和你们一样,维护自己的尊严,维护自己国家的尊严!我也是海外游子,我会你你们为榜样,一点一点的从小事做起,努力改变中国,改变中国人在世界舞台的地位。

  102. 103 Joejoe March 19, 2008 at 6:33 am

    For short sighted Americans, you supported Bin Laden when they’re your buddy in against Soviets. He later becomes your worst enemy. Oh people might argue he held a extreme religious agenda. No wonder…. But what about Dalai and his faction of religious practice. What’s his relationship with the European cult in finding Nazi Indo-Arian super race worrior? What’s his relationship with Aum Shinrikyo’s leader Shoko Asahara, who master minded the 1995 sarin attack on Tokyo subway system. Does Dalai is all for peace or he had a secret Tantric agenda of world dominence of his own?

    Check the following link out, you’ll be amazed what’s hidden beneath the imaginary crown of peace:

    What’s interesting is that at the last paragrah of first link, there even mentioned DaLai’s return to China before Olympics. Although it’s published 5 years ago. You have to agree to the author’s exquisite observation on Dalai and his faction of buddhism.

  103. 104 Joejoe March 19, 2008 at 7:02 am

    Our world is already a chaotic place with wars and conflicts break out in between different religions and religous factions alike. Do we really prepared to embrace another secret practice of world dominance hidden behind the mask of peace and tolerance?

  104. 105 Joejoe March 19, 2008 at 7:16 am

    Quote from first link

    “Trimondi: Yes, it is astonishing why the Jewish Community is so uncritical vis-à-vis the Dalai Lama. On 09.04.03 the Swiss Newspaper Neue Zürcher Zeitung reported, that the Tibetan religious leader said on a journey in Jerusalem,

    Hitler would also have the potential of a good man in himself. Hitler was not born as a wicked man, his hatred of the Jewish people made him malicious and this hatred must be battled. But this doesn’t mean that there was not also lying dormant some Goodness in Hitler. A wicked man can be tomorrow a good man, said the Dalai Lama. For this we have to fight.

    Also if such a statement can be interpreted as an expression of Buddhist compassion, it seems tasteless remembering the murdering of six million Jews by the Nazis and the death of millions and millions of war victims on the account of Hitler’s madness. There would be a worldwide protest, if for example the Pope or a Western statesman made such a sympathetic remark on the most prominent mass murderer in human history, especially if such a remark is done in Israel, where many survivors of the Holocaust and their children are living. ”

    Why didn’t the western media sound any disapproval of this anti-semitic language. Current Dalai Lama is no doubt a Hitler sympathizer.

  105. 106 Enigma March 19, 2008 at 7:23 am

    Maybe instead of arguing about which propaganda is correct,
    Which political super power is evil,
    What type of world we live in,
    and any other foolish rabbit trail the human mind can take you down.
    You guys should actually act. Use your voice to change stuff instead of pointlessly posting about how that “is so sad” or “damn Chinese tyrants”.

    It doesn’t matter if it is 100+ or 1 person.

  106. 107 people_is_prejudice March 19, 2008 at 7:24 am

    I am no any fan of either the “Dalai Lama” or the China Communist Party. I just saw how prejudice people are. Yes the pictures are bloody and horrible. But can we believe what we saw? Not always. Basically there are two questions:
    1. When were the pictures taken?
    2. Where were the pictures taken?

    The Tibet monks are in Nipel, India and China. How do we know these pictures were taken in Lhasa and in March 2008? No we can not.

    Besides, according to the video record, the Lhasa mobs just heated and killed the passing-by people randomly like crazy with stones. And the Lhasa mobs just tried to break the doors of banks in order to rob money. If someone kills you and your children just because you and your children occasionally pass by. I don’t think you are going to sing praise songs for the killer.

    The truth was and is, the Lhasa mobs burned the cars and stores, killed people randomly in the streets and rob the banks, then the police and army entered to press down. That’s simple cause and consequence. Yeah yeah you may say how China is oppressive to Tibet. But I know the white people in America once were also very oppressive to the African American people. Can the African American just shot you in the head in the street just because you’re white? I don’t think so.

    People are blind not because they can not see but because their prejudice. Violence, under whatever names, is the sin.

  107. 108 roger rabbit March 19, 2008 at 7:27 am

    To most of you, thank you for this little entertainment. It’s funny to find so many morons arguing on such shaky assumptions and definitions. The emotional vigor with which people defend/attack Chinese policy is a proud testament to “education” systems of both China and the U.S.

    JC: Americans may be hypocrites, but how does that make it okay to go crush a revolt in the way China does it? You seem to like bashing America, and this is not the place. You should go find an article about Iraq and bash Americans there — I reckon it would be a lot more fun.

    Joejoe, you say “We didn’t invade any country, Tibet was, is and always shall be part of China. Tibet issue is our domestic issues.” Who decides what is part of China? Your Chinese textbooks, written by your Chinese government? Please tell me you’re joking. You sound like an American that believes in manifest destiny. If you grew up in NY, you’d probably think that America was the greatest democracy in the world. You also use the word “ironic” incorrectly.

    Max says “DaLai Lama should die in hell~he is the real evil for both Chinese and Tibetans!!!!!” Either he is naive, or funny. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and laugh.

    Tara says “Chinese media is obviously lying.” Either she is naive, or funny. I’ll give her the benefit of the doubt and laugh.

    Chaim says “When are people going to learn that guns and bombs are not the fucking answer?” I think I agree, to some extent. We in the U.S. have used a variety of mechanisms to pull off our near-genocide of the Native Americans: pseudo-religious ideals (e.g. White Man’s Burden, manifest destiny), propaganda machinery entrenched in “education,” outright biological warfare by the British colonists (i.e. intentionally giving out disease-laden blankets). Guns and sanctioned murder can only take you so far.

    This latest riot stirs up trouble for Beijing, but overall I think they’re doing a good job of mopping up people that don’t understand the why it’s important for Tibet to contribute to Chinese national power. But I wonder if the Communist party can improve upon the current surveillance system. If I were “Chief Information Officer”, and if the claims attached to those pictures are true, then I would be furious. Heads are going to fly, and I don’t mean just in the literal sense.

    I decided against buying headphones made in China yesterday. This is the price China has to pay for sloppy information control (since pillaging ethnic minorities is a non-negotiable).

    Okay, I have wasted enough time on this. If you found holes/biases to point out in my arguments, or just want to rant voluminously at me, be my guest.


    to sacrifice his life,

  108. 109 Anonymous March 19, 2008 at 7:27 am

    I wonder how long we gonna make business with these chinese murder government. Mao killed more people than Hitler, and they still glorify this arsehole.

    I am from Europe so this thing here has nothing to do with “U.S. sticking their nose into…”. I would love to, if the U.S. would stick their nose into, and additionally would f*ck up some chinese. I bet you would have FULL SUPPORT from the rest of the free world.

    This is not a war. This is farmer vs. chinese murder-militairy. They still practicing force-abortions on tibetian women to reduce the native population, they still torture kids and even monks.

    And even more abject: Some chinese PR-people from their paramoiuntleader terror regime are trying to flood the forums and blogentries with false information.

    NEWSFLASH: You already lost, you are on the international SH*IT-LIST for everyone aka. the rest of the free planet.

  109. 110 steve March 19, 2008 at 7:32 am

    They still practicing forced-abortions on tibetian women to reduce the native population, they still torture kids and monks.

    To all of these chinese paramountleader PR-Posters here: NEWSFLASH, you already lost. You are on the international SH*IT-LIST for all of us aka. the whole free world.

    PLUS – me as a european would love it, if the USA would ‘stick their nose into it…’ and I bet the U.S. would have our FULL SUPPORT.

  110. 111 roger rabbit March 19, 2008 at 7:50 am

    Oh boy, more ammunition!

    A: “Mao killed more people than Hitler, and they still glorify this arsehole.”
    That’s different. Mao did not lose a war. If you lose a war, then you’re on the shitlist. Hitler also went after God’s Chosen Ones, and if you live in America (or Israel) you would know better than to mess with the Jews like that. The Dalai Lama? Not a Jew.

    “Some chinese PR-people from their paramoiuntleader terror regime are trying to flood the forums and blogentries with false information.”
    If they are they’re doing a pretty piss-poor job of it — just look at JoeJoe. Maybe JoeJoe is a wannabe. I bet I could do a better job. Maybe I should go apply.

    “I am from Europe so this thing here has nothing to do with “U.S. sticking their nose into…”. I would love to, if the U.S. would stick their nose into, and additionally would f*ck up some chinese.”
    That’s not a nice thing to say. I have Chinese friends. That would also result in a war of attrition, and the EU stands to gain. You’re an EU psyche ops agent, aren’t you?

    “I bet you would have FULL SUPPORT from the rest of the free world.”
    No you wouldn’t. American kids will bemoan the higher iPod prices. If we don’t have our music, we might be forced to think.

    “This is not a war. This is farmer vs. chinese murder-militairy. They still practicing force-abortions on tibetian women to reduce the native population, they still torture kids and even monks.”
    You make oppression sound so bad.


    Damn it damn it damn it. I must not waste more time on this than JoeJoe does. MUST STOP HAVING FUN AND GO TO SLEEP.

  111. 112 To Anonymous March 19, 2008 at 7:55 am

    You are simply a racist siting in from of your PC everyday believing every anti-chinese post you find from Google. the fact that you are from Europe doesn’t proof any of your words being unbiased.

    Get out of bed and go to China and see for your self.

  112. 113 Joejoe March 19, 2008 at 7:57 am

    roger rabbit, glad you came to ask “Who decided what’s part of China?” A country is defined by its own people. We Chinese defined what’s part of China just like America is defined by Americans.

    It’s really funny you guys always label yourself people of the free world. Let’s tell others your true name, your free world is just a beautified name for NATO. The biggest war organization on this planet. The undisputable monster power to interfere other people’s live.

  113. 114 people_is_prejudice March 19, 2008 at 8:01 am

    Joejoe, don’t forget NATO was organized after they beat down Nazi and Japs.

    You can not say America interfere the Nazi and Japs’ live were wrong.

    Free world? Maybe, at least they can vote for their affair instead of violence and blood.

  114. 115 twilightzer0 March 19, 2008 at 8:06 am

    (If China was not communist, Americans would not be making as a big a deal as they are now.)

    From what I know, didn’t this whole thing get started because some stupid Islandic singer couldn’t keep her mouth shut? If you guys haven’t, I suggest you read this article:
    My take on this is if she hadn’t chanted “Tibet! Tibet! Tibet” then none of this would’ve happened.

    From how I see it:
    Prior to recent events, there’s been relevant peace in Tibet for the past couple decades.
    Chinese business men entered Tibet (however you choose to view that) and introduced Capitalism to the region. This is the 21st century. I don’t care how prosperous Tibet has been in the past however centuries, but in the present world, capitalism is law. Capitalism ensures economic growth in the region.
    Tibetans acted first. They destroyed Chinese businesses and property. In all sense, their actions are considered a hate crime against the Chinese, and in turn, the military stepped in. Property was destroyed. People were injured. People were killed. Probably on both sides. I don’t care what happened, and I don’t give a damn about how the Chinese don’t want foreign media covering the story(as a foreign sovereignty, I believe China is entitled to that right). Fact is, both sides were wrong in their own way.
    Some people above have compared this to Hitler’s actions during the WWII era. I want to say, if you honestly believe that, then God help you. You’re a F***ing Retard. So much worse has happened in recent years, and unless you’re comparing all tragedies that humanity has imposed upon itself with Hitler’s crimes, then please keep quiet and watch the adults deal with this.
    As for America sending troops to China, I strongly believe that is impossible. Having lived in California for almost all my life, I think war with China would suck balls. (Actually, even if I had lived elsewhere, war between China and America would suck balls). Especially the disaster our retard-of-a-president ensured in Iraq, another ass kicking is not what America wants right now, and Tibet (aside from being rich in Uranium), has little to offer. As mentioned above, America’s economy lies largely in the hands and mercy of the Chinese right now. Take a good look around you, and note how many of the things you see are “made in China.” A war with China would be economically devastating in so many ways, not to mention that it would likely result in WWIII. America would be foolish to make war with the world’s largest standing army.

  115. 116 Joejoe March 19, 2008 at 8:19 am

    I think people with biased view on China such as Anonymous would never come to China. First, they don’t have balls to face anyone wearing Chinese uniform. Because in their believe, all Chinese in uniform are murderers. Second, they never trust Chinese transportation as if it’s made of bamboo. Third, their view of China only exists in Hollywood movies in which police presence are everywhere and people are treated as slaves.

    I don’t want to waste any more time on explaining how our China is different from theirs. Just let them fantasizing how great and free they are until they realize they have nothing to compete with us. Don’t come to China if you want to regret your time wasted on blogging a fantasized free world.

  116. 117 To Bob Job March 19, 2008 at 8:21 am

    “I do feel reel sorry for all of the people in Tibet. not at all sorry for any of the Chinese. They actually have a big enough population to over throw their government. They just don’t realize it.”

    Yes as a Chinese I can tell you that you are absolutely right, we are having big enough population not only over throw our own government, but conquer every single country around us, and even US.

    But we won’t:

    1. We love our country, our government is not perfect but at least it brings peace and prosperity to us for the first time in 5000 years.

    2. Do we have 100% democracy yet? Not, but things are changing; We need more time.

    3. We mind our own business, we don’t go around and police.

    4. Tibet has always been an inseparable part of China, since hundreds of years ago from Qing Dynasty.

  117. 118 中国人 March 19, 2008 at 8:23 am

    Joe Joe 坚持住啊~ 大家支持你!

  118. 119 Joejoe March 19, 2008 at 8:36 am

    people_is_prejudice, you’re completely wrong on the history about NATO. It’s created on 1949, 4 years after the end of WWII. Its creation has nothing to do with defeating the Nazis and Japs, but defending west Europe from USSR. After the collapse of Warsaw Pact and its former rivery USSR, this organization stands out as the largest military organization in the world. In my view, this is what defines the so called free world.

  119. 120 A Real Chinese March 19, 2008 at 8:53 am

    As a Chinese I have to say there is a common mistake in most of the above post:

    In China when it comes to what you call “Tibetans”, none of us has ever call Tibet locals like that, we call them “Zhang Chinese”, as opposed to “Han Chinese”, which is the largest ethnic group in China.

    “Zhang Chinese” is just one of 55 minor ethnic groups in China. We love/hate them no more than any other groups. They are just like any other ethnic groups, they are still Chinese.

  120. 121 Heidelun March 19, 2008 at 8:55 am

    Found this video of Chinese gunning down people crossing into India… Shocking…

  121. 122 klv@china March 19, 2008 at 9:07 am

    the people always believes what they want to believe
    Not only the chinese is headwashed by the goverment.
    i just want to explain this
    if you european or american just trust everything published by your media ,maybe we do not have to discuss any more.
    believe it or not,chinese goverment is improving

  122. 123 people_is_prejudice March 19, 2008 at 9:11 am

    Joejoe, nice words.

    However I completely know the history of NATO. What I mean is that the countries who joined in NATO were also the same countries who beat down Nazi and Japs by sacrificing their young citizens’ lives to save the miserable people in the remote lands. You can not deny this. WWII is the glorious victory that the whole human nations, whatever the beliefs and colors, united to fight against the evils and won. Your so-called “free world”, even though you’re so satire to say that, were help China to fight Japs who were the demons made Rape of Nankin. The “free world” were the friends of China. You can not deny this also.

    Yeah maybe you don’t like what the countries of NATO did in Cold War or Iraq. But I am sure you will not like the countries of Warsaw Pact did in Prague (Russian Tanks entered it in 1969) and Afghanistan (Russia invaded it in 1979). I think both NATO and Warsaw Pack were wrong, they shows how human beings are obsessed by vain words like Democracy and Communist but deadly betrayed the original meaning of these words. These are the tragedy for human being’s civilization. I don’t think people fully understand how Cold War impact the history of civilization.

    In short words, people never really respect each other, and hatred were and are spread in whatever the name of “Eastern”, “Western”, “Communist”, “Capitalism”, “China”, “America”, “Free” or “Oppressive”. That’s not because NATO is bad or Communist is bad. That’s the tragedy of human.

  123. 124 Joejoe March 19, 2008 at 9:17 am

    Enigma, you made a good point. I propose the following action to both sides:

    Please read what I posted earlier regarding Lamalism. It explains many things not from a Chinese point of view, but from several German intellectual. You fellow citizens of free world.

    Let’s try not use any hateful rhetric which only makes us look silly.

    Dalai lovers, please continue to donate to the Tibetan exils as most of them are still fellow Chinese. They lived a miserable live in the exil land. You feel free to donate to Dalai as long as you’re not influenced by the two links I posted earlier. Our good will is that when all exils are rich, they will calm down and start to enjoy life. Make sure you donate Euros because American dollar is not welcomed. Also do make sure your donation is spent on each exil family, otherwise your good will and ours is just another shiny gold piece in the pocket of exil gov official.

    China supporters, please find ways to support your fellow Chinese who is hurt in the violence. Please post photoes of anyone vandalizing Chinese flags and emblem on the Internet, which only bring Chinese together. Please express yourself with wisdom. Don’t goes into too much detail because they won’t listen anyway. Use all necessary tools available on the Internet to promote our ideas. Wikipedia is very good. Many facts are just at your finger tips. Remember, they only have the so called free world on their side, and we have the rest.

  124. 125 people_is_prejudice March 19, 2008 at 9:26 am

    Heidelun, you can find any video show how American armies or polices were gunning down Indians or African Americans. I can guarantee it is also shocking.

    If people crossing into India against the law of the country, why the police or armed force are guilty to shoot? Didn’t the America or European armed force shoot any one who is against law? That’s shocking also.

    As I said, people is prejudice.

  125. 126 Joejoe March 19, 2008 at 9:34 am

    people_is_prejudice, I don’t want to jump into the detail on the origin of NATO, but it’s for sure not originated from the countries defeating Nazis and Imperial Japanese. It’s a different concept than WWII with both time and geographic difference. Some NATO countries are neutral in WWII, some were even on the other side during the war.

  126. 127 xt March 19, 2008 at 10:41 am

    UN is what you can call heritage of WW2. NATO certainly not. newsflash: china was among the ones who defeated the japanese in WW2. why arent they in the NATO? because they are sided with USSR, which is btw also took part in defeating germany and japan.

    calling NATO responsible for defeating germany and japan is just what the narrow-minded and self-centered western people can claim.

  127. 128 xt March 19, 2008 at 10:48 am

    on another notice. is dalai lama any different than osama bin laden? both financed by the CIA in order to break another country apart.

  128. 129 LinHongJun March 19, 2008 at 11:17 am

    Chinese media is covering the truth, as so, SOME of western media is turning the truth upside down.

  129. 130 xt March 19, 2008 at 11:18 am

    how come nobody has questioned the dalai lama and his position?

    wasnt he a backward despot up til he got owned by the chinese PLA, but somehow managed a deal that saved him some political importance? had he realized back then that religion and politics dont go well together, he could have ended up like the queen of england or king of thailand, respected, but without real political power. instead, he had to cause some rebellion and flee as the result. in exile, he made up an “exile government”. now tell me, who does he think he is to justify being leader of a government? was he elected? NO. he was enthroned as dalai lama for lifetime. thats right. enthroned, not elected. he has no legitimacy what-so-ever by today’s standards. without the charisma that he has, he would just be like that pakistani opposition leader that got shot last year. exiled because of failure in politics. that pakistani guy even had a legitimate government before he was overthrown by musharaf. what did dalai lama have? despotism, overthrown by a government that brought healthcare, education and wealth.

    next time you sympathize with somebody, look closer at who he is. the US had a long history with those false friends. saddam and osama are prominent examples.

  130. 131 yy March 19, 2008 at 11:44 am

    the people always believes what they want to believe

  131. 132 xt March 19, 2008 at 12:18 pm

    in my understanding, the dalai lama calls the whole thing “cultural genocide”, because the religion in the monasteries are carried out by monks that are not under his influence, but accept the current government. by his standards, the religion practiced in the monasteries are heresy and not the right teachings.
    but who is he to say that his teachings are right? he got the position of dalai lama because it is said that he is a reincarnated buddha. o rly? for religion, this might be good enough. but gtfo of politics with this. cultural genocide my ass. culture changes and adapts itself. its not genocide just because the dalai lama has no part in this.
    he is using western opinion as leverage to try to regain his power in tibet. dont be fooled.

  132. 133 Cindee March 19, 2008 at 1:17 pm

    Hey Hey,
    These are some pretty disgusting images … and some pretty heated comments. Just passing by 🙂

  133. 134 Tony Blair March 19, 2008 at 2:00 pm

    There are no tibetans, tibet is part of China, people living in Tibet are Chinese

  134. 135 miki March 19, 2008 at 4:47 pm

    It makes me so upset. PLease come and help us here

    Thank you

  135. 136 Enigma March 19, 2008 at 5:15 pm

    Thank you to whoever listened but please!
    listen more, do more!
    complaining about NATO, WWII, the CIA, and other such entities.
    Your arguments achieve NOTHING!
    Because they are arguments, and arguments lack the ability to sway others 99.9% of the time.
    An Idea, now that can last. Ideas have the ability to reshape the world.
    So, instead of arguing pointlessly about random bunny trails that are used to try to show your wealth of information. YOU DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS!

  136. 137 CFA Level 1 March 19, 2008 at 5:23 pm

    This is absolutely gruesome.

  137. 138 xin March 19, 2008 at 6:37 pm

    I support a boycott of the Olympics, but doubt it will happen. Too much money at stake (sponsor $$$ especially).
    The political truth is,
    China would rather lose the Olympics
    rather than
    lose Tibet.
    Once Tibet goes, Taiwan goes next,
    followed quickly by Xinjiang and Qinghai,
    two other provinces were ethnic Han Chinese
    have always been a minority.
    Whenever China kicks the press out,
    bad things happen.
    I feel sorry for the Tibetans,
    especially now that the Chinese
    have faster access to the region
    thanks to a new railway
    no doubt designed to carry troops
    and tanks for these kinds of situations.

  138. 139 Joejoe March 19, 2008 at 7:59 pm

    Xin, you guys are really day dreaming the Xinjiang Indepdence. Do you have any ideas about Xinjiang Production and Construction Corps? A a unique economic and semi-military governmental organization setup specifially to counter East Turkistan independence movement. They are mainly farm workers in peace time but highly organized in army ranks with more than 2 million Han Chinese. They are rooted from PLA regular infantry units and will defend their land till death.

    Do you know what kind of people are promoting Xinjiang Independence? They are the muslim extremist trained in Afghan. They are notorious for carrying out all kind of car bombings and killings innocent Chinese. A most recent incident involved a Uyghur woman who tried but failed to blow up a passenger jet in the mid air by igniting the gasoline bomb smuggled on board. They may have a different agenda today but I am sure they will have one for you American tomorrow.

    You guys don’t stand a chance!

  139. 140 thomas March 19, 2008 at 9:01 pm

    free tibet china sucks

  140. 141 bbb March 20, 2008 at 12:02 am

    Eyewitness reports and photos from Tibet by a Canadian tourist.

  141. 142 Thank you bbb March 20, 2008 at 12:31 am

    The link is another proof what is really happening in Tibet right now:

    It doesn’t have any photos showing Chinese Military murdering protestants.

    All I see is Tibetan protestants/Monks burning shops, beating innocent passerby, looting banks/restaurants.

    Are you kidding me? You guys are supporting Tibetan mobs to do crimes like this? I mean I support their fight for human rights and stuff, but only in a non-violent way.

    Westerners should stop being brainwashed by western media. Wake up! Go you China for Olympics and see for yourself!

  142. 143 Xing March 20, 2008 at 3:05 am

    I am Chinese , live in China now. I want to let everybody know what the actual actuality Xizang is first. Xizang is not Heaven. Xizang natural conditions is very very bad,natural calamities sends out frequency.Economy falls behind very much. Living standards of the people is low. So china Gov spent 2 thousand Billion RMB in last 10 years to construction infrastructure. Now,Xizang changing very big.
    i think healthy survival is the biggest human right. And why not US Army leave Iraq alone,leave Muslim alone , leave our planet alone.
    And what will you feeling if Hawaii people burn US national flag and say independence?

  143. 144 Youtube March 20, 2008 at 3:41 am

    This video tells it all.

  144. 145 It's the LAW March 20, 2008 at 3:46 am

    Direct Quote from Chinese Constitution:

    “all ethnic groups within the boundaries of the People’s Republic of China are equal. They establish unity and mutual aid among themselves, and shall oppose imperialism and public enemies in their midst so that the People’s Republic of China will become a big fraternal and cooperative family comprising all its ethnic groups. ‘Greater nationalism’ and ‘local nationalism’ should be opposed. Acts of discrimination, oppression and dividing the various nationalities should be prohibited.”

    “regional autonomy should be exercised in areas where ethnic minorities are concentrated…. All ethnic minorities should have the freedom to develop their spoken and written languages, and to preserve or reform their traditions, customs and religious beliefs. The People’s Government shall assist the broad masses of all ethnic minorities to develop politically, economically, culturally and educationally.”

    So do you understand now Tibetans are actually having more rights than Han Chinese. So what are you complaining again?

  145. 146 Chicago March 20, 2008 at 6:50 am

    My respect to China’s current education system, which results in many Chinese students speaking English as their second language and having the opportunity to voice their opinions to the West.

    Seems that Chinese people blame the Western media/journalists in conducting biased reports and misleading the public opinions just as much we do to theirs. below is found from a Chinese blog site, the title reads “Shameless News Media – CNN refused to correct the biased reports and photoshopped pictures”.

    it’s your call to keep believe in what you’ve been told since you were born, or begin practicing critical thinking and questioning.

    No, the government in China is not directly voted by its 1.3 billion citizens, but they seem to be doing well so far, and people like them.
    On the contrary, we voted a bunch of war criminals twice into office. Imagine what would happen if Bush+Cheney+Rumsfeld were the leaders of China, how would they handle the Tibet issue? or any other current issues/pressures facing China? A mass killing labeled ‘War on Terror’, and “Either you are with us, or with the terrorists”? you bet.
    No, there’d be no 11% annual economic growth, no summer olympics. Instead, high unemployment rate, money draining wars, and big oil corps and wall streets showing huge profits…etc. sounds familiar? so after all, how good of an example are we showing the world of our democracy? and the best part, don’t we just love enjoy introducing democracy to other places by using brutal forces? Oh dear God, i just love this country.

  146. 147 Real Proof is here! March 20, 2008 at 8:07 am

    Let’s check this out.

    Let’s see who is lying and who is not.

  147. 148 parnab , patna March 20, 2008 at 9:30 am

    chinese govt. are only trying to crush huminity voice by power. but history will mmust teach them a lesson.tibet once symbolises harmony & peace is now turnig to violene and this is only due impathy of world towards tibet.

  148. 149 From Taiwan March 20, 2008 at 3:21 pm

    Sorry! tibet was never part of China. This is just imperialism.
    Get real people !!

  149. 150 Anonymous March 20, 2008 at 3:25 pm

    I have also been questioning: why the western media only reported the Chinese government how to deal with the illegal rebellion, and what’s worse is that they even distort the facts purposively? As a so-called liberty of speech, including media, is the distoring of the facts alos included? Why did not you report the other side of the spot: the inhuman mobs and what they had done/have been doing? I think, these mobs will also be put down into jails even in US/Germany.

    As one of you has said, if this happened in US, there is every probablity that it will be defined as a terror, and all the mobs will be also terrorists, and then another anti-terror action will come up. And this is the only and the best way out.

    As to China, it lacks a strong media to show the other world what a real China is now, so now most of the critics for the better of China and Chinese people don’t know exactly China well, and most of them are biased by the mistaking reports by the medias with no good intentions on China. However, on the other hand, China should not have driven the western or the Hongkong reporter out of Tibet, but I am sure this is also for the safety of the reporters–as you know, the inhuman mobs will attack anybody there.

    All in one, China is developing very fast now, it has been taking great changes in every respect, and what’s glad is that the Chinese are improving greatly in human rights, livelihoods, etc.. If we are really for the better of the Chinese people, we should go China and learn more about China, not based on only a few reports by some reporters. Facts speak everything.

  150. 151 attila March 20, 2008 at 6:44 pm

    Fuck China, szapora sárga kis mocsadékok:|

  151. 152 Miklos March 20, 2008 at 8:10 pm

    I think that the best solution for trouble making, rioting yellow, black, chocolate and whatever other colours you can imagine is simple. Nuke the fuck out of them. Problem solved.
    No more bloodshed in Tibet, or in friggin’ Sudan, Rwanda, etc, etc, etc… And when we, white people have nuked all the rest of the world, well, then we can start picking on each other, starting with pigs like Russian, Serbian and similar lowlife assholes… And when only the strongest is left standing, than they can start a civil war and kill themselves/each other to end this embarrassing world. 🙂

  152. 153 marine_sgt March 20, 2008 at 8:12 pm

    good point their miklos lets start with fuckin iraq hehe

  153. 154 mihai March 20, 2008 at 8:40 pm

    Save Lhasa! Free Tibet!

  154. 155 Joejoe March 20, 2008 at 9:59 pm

    Dalai government is lier so is your western media.

    You are only good at making lies, follow lies and spread them. You are illiterate at math, at geography, at history.

    Suppose you “Free Tibet” followers all heard Chinese slaughtered 1 million Tibetans over and over from all these liers. For a race with 1.8 million to start with in 1950, slaughtered 1 million, and 200 plus thousands fled to India. There should be only 600 thousands Tibetan left. The actual number of present day Tibetan population in China is 5.8 million.

    Compared to China’s total population growth from 0.4 billion (in 1949) to 1.3 billion (present). Either Tibetan are really good at reproduction or the slaughter claim is a lie.

  155. 156 Greg March 20, 2008 at 11:35 pm

    you americans are so fucking retarded. comments on this site are freaky. dont wonder why all the world hates you , stupid ignorant jugs. go back to school, learn how to read first and then MAYBE, you will understand what’s happening around the world. Personnally, whena great american GI is shot somewhere i can only think one thing: poor ignorant didnt even knew why the fuck he was killed.

  156. 157 March 21, 2008 at 7:32 am

    We’re talking about people shot, beaten up in a place, which is declared to be “free” by the Chinese state! If this is a simple mob riot, why don’t the Chinese authorities take the rioters into detention? Why they close the place hermetically? Especially why they kick out the foreign press workers? They would be able to prove that the police worked rightfully and effectively when taking people into detention.

    In relation with the atrocities against the Chinese nationals. I am not surprised these happened: I don’t say that the violence is justifiable but probably the han people had disregard to local rules, etc. It is no surprise that this situation escalated…

  157. 158 Davinder March 21, 2008 at 8:54 am

    Greg you can’t say that about ALL americans…but that’s definately true about some.

    Now CHINA, no one knows what is REALLY going on, but its FUN TO SPECULATE 😀

    SO here it is:
    – Tibetans want independence = the riot
    – China says no screw you, stop riot, any means neccessary


    Government vs. State rebellion…

    now i don’t know what side to take but i can say is that China has every right to stop a state wide revolution. Think in your own countries ppl, would u allow ALaska out of States? Quebec out of Canada?

  158. 159 rolika March 21, 2008 at 9:22 am

    i’ll personally boycott the olympics.
    it’s a shame of the international community, that nothing happens, because it’s about china.

  159. 160 rolika March 21, 2008 at 9:24 am

    davinder, tibet was never part of china.
    the chinese army simply invaded the top of the world fifty years ago.

  160. 161 Hugi March 21, 2008 at 12:55 pm

    I don’t understand. UK, France, Germany were for the autonomy of Kosovo, but they are not for the autonomy of Tibet, Corse, etc. ?

  161. 162 Michael March 21, 2008 at 1:06 pm

    @Joejoe, Greg:

    why are you continuously insulting people with opinions different from yours? Do you really believe this will change anyone’s view on China? I guess not to the better.

    Or do you just want to prove that Americans are not the only ignorant, self-centered, arrogant people on the world? If yes, you made your point! 🙂

    Besides, while it is true that western media only offers biased views, it is possible to read about _any_ opinion and its exact opposite. Try that in China! (Yes, I can read Chinese.) You will only get _one_ perspective irrespectively which media you choose. Guess what gives a better _chance_ (not guarantee) to make up an objective view on ongoing events?

  162. 163 Joejoe March 21, 2008 at 4:39 pm


    Like it or not, blog is a place to state anyone’s opinion. It’s my divine right to present mine and stand by it.

    I doubt in biased media coverage you can really hear anything that is different. Do any of your media present view of any regular Chinese people? Even in yesterday NPR coverage, no Chinese were present and the tone is set on the so called Chinese invasion of Tibet, a wishful lie that being told for the past decades. Have your media ever interviewed Chinese treated in hospital when they were still in Tibet? They are out because their sole purpose to promote civil unrest.

    You said you can read Chinese, why don’t you read original Chinese historic documentation, either published after 1949 or before. I bet none of them ever documented a greater Tibet as claimed by the shameless Dalai and his regime. His control over Tibet was merely the southern part of the now Tibet Autonomous Region. Tibetan as any other Chinese ethnic groups, are living peacefully together with other in many part of Chinese area. Shameless lier such as Dalai not only claims the entire Tibet, but also claims south Qinghai, South Gansu, West Sichuan, and North Yunnan. These areas are mix with Tibetan as well as other ethnic groups for thousand years and they are always part of China. I call this is the greatest offence to all Chinese people.

    I just don’t buy it that Dalai and his followers are all for peace. It’s an undeniable fact that he and his regime are deep rooted in political matters. They hijacked religion is just a shiny cover to whitewash their horrible slavery past. Even their religion itself is of very dark root. They use human skin on drums, they uses human blood in their secret ritual. They even use minors, especially young girls in their secret practice.

    They are the racists that they promote single race dominance in areas populated with ethnic diversity. They are the terrorist that they aimed at civilian Chinese and business to spill their hate. They are evil because they practice dark religion.

    I’m glad to see all anti-Chinese factions jumped out before the opening the Beijing Olympics. It really united we Chinese all around the world and let us know who our enemy is. I bet all Chinese soldiers must have heard of coverage of 5 young girls being burnt alive. They now understand it’s their sacred duty to protect this land.

    Europeans must have forgotten their miserable past for being ruled Nazis. For it’s the only government on the planet of world that is sick enough to exploit the cult rooted fantasy about Indo-Arian super human races. This fantasy is a still being practiced by those preaching Dalai Lama worship. Wake up before another dark rule that will destroy your civilization.

  163. 164 Joejoe March 21, 2008 at 4:51 pm

    To Hugi,

    UK, France, Germany acts for Kosovo is because the Serbia is a small country. Same thing applies to Iraq. The law of the jungle still applies in international politics, the word “Human Right”, “Free Speech” are nothing but CIA propaganda.

    Next time before your country invades others, ask where is “Human Right”?

  164. 165 Joejoe March 21, 2008 at 5:09 pm


    I really don’t care if their view to China has anything but better, because anyway China is being blamed by the west all the time.

    It’s a deep rooted culture in the west that is to blame everything on others. Never admit any wrong doing of yourself. No wonder most of your politicians are lawyers.

    Losers, blame China as you like, just don’t get in our way.

  165. 166 Joejoe March 21, 2008 at 5:15 pm

    Dalai lies, Chinese dies!

  166. 167 Joejoe March 21, 2008 at 8:11 pm

    In western media, reporting China with a dyed glass is too common nowadays because blaming China is easy. I bet any report will get readers anyway if only you say things bad about China. We Chinese really don’t like it but we just shrug off as there are more important things to matter. However, this time thins are different. It’s your biased report that caused massive rioting which directly leads death of ordinary Chinese civilian. No wonder such kind of media should be banned. In my opinion, they should be sued for punitive damage.

    Remember there is a role in Die Hard, in the name of Richard Thornburg. The reporters of liar western media are exactly the same kind.

  167. 168 Chicago March 21, 2008 at 9:20 pm

    How about everybody just calm down for a moment, for God’s sake.
    let’s see what India has to say about the riot from her perspective.

    Why do we even care about what Indians think?
    Dalai regime is currently resided in India It’s a neighboring country of China. It has 1.1 billion population. It practices democracy in our standard( I know we have double-standard :-p). It maintains a steady and healthy relationship with the U.S. government.
    Now, this is what i call an unbiased report. Plain facts without irrational language. I know this is boring, but this world really don’t need any more drama.

  168. 169 InsaneAZN22 March 22, 2008 at 4:36 am

    All this violence in Tibet is not China’s fault, get your facts right stupid western media, stop feeding people false information. Get the truth, watch this video and you’ll see the Tibetans are the only “victims”.

  169. 170 InsaneAZN22 March 22, 2008 at 5:16 am

    oh yeah more evidence, and will the media plz do more research before arriving at a conclusion? they can’t even tell the difference between Chinese and Indian people.

  170. 171 phabulosa March 22, 2008 at 10:00 pm

    My view of this world very pathetic. I don’t believe anything like justice or fairness to exist. In a conflict, each side will always find some justification to kill each other. So, a debate on who is right and who is wrong is simply non-sense.Think about this, do you think those 9/11 hijackers are crazy? No, they aren’t. They truly believe their action is right and they were very proud of themselves. Look back at what Americans think about the Iraq war after 9/11. They were really excited and supportive about that war. Now, about half of American began to hate Iraq war, but most of them hate the war not because of justice or fairness, they just realize that Americans cannot afford such a war. Keep in mind that half of Americans are still supportive on American force existence in Iraq.

    There are only two solutions for any conflict.
    1. One side kill everyone of the other side or completely destroy their will to fight.
    A good example will be what European colonist did to all American Indians.
    The only reason we can still blame China/Chinese is that they didn’t kill all Tibetans before.

    2. Two sides make some sort of treaty of agreement. However, this kind of agreement is always based on the contrast of power from each side.
    Native Indians signed many treaties with White settlers. Those treaties weren’t fair to the Indians at all, but they have to sign them. They have no choice but to leave their home and move to the reserved poor lands.
    Did settlers kept their promises? NO! Still remembering the Indian Removal Act? : )

    Chinese has been trying to control Tibet for thousands of years even before Columbus found the New World. There were many wars between Han Chinese and Tibetans in the past and the conflict is still here today. Asking the Chinese to move out of Tibet is as silly as remove all Whites from the US. The Chinese have military and economical superiority over native Tibetans, just like what Whites have over native Indians. It is impossible to ask someone who has better hands to give up.

    If you really know what compromise Chinese have made to Tibetans and compare those to what Whites gave the native Indians and Africans. You will be amazed how generous it is. The Tibetans do have “super-citizenship” in China. Why Tibetans still started a riot, because they are pursuing a mission impossible which is to remove all Chinese from Tibet.

    If you really want to get involved in Chinese/Tibetan conflicts and help Tibetans. Please follow what the US did for Israel, at least donate some money and buy guns for those Tibetan monks. Or, if you are really serious, write to your congressman and persuade him to declare a war on China. That is even better.

    Bullsh*ting on the Internet or merely boycotting the Olympics won’t help at all.

    For the Chinese, the Olympics is just a game, or at the most an opportunity to show off the economical might they gained in the recent years. The only reason Chinese people care about the Olympics is that they want to correct the distorted image of China giving the facts that most Westerners have no clue what China really is. (this can be proved by so many silly comments here).

    However, it is more important to keep the sovereignty of Chinese territory. So, go ahead and boycott Olympics 2008, no Chinese will care.

  171. 172 Gus March 23, 2008 at 5:42 am

    I was with the Tibetan who received these picutres in the Tibetan community in exile, Dharamshala on the 17th of March.
    He was having a web chat with a friend who was in hiding in Amdo, Ngawa (Aba, Sichuan) when he started to send the pictures through as attachemnts.
    The person who sent the picutres was locked in a room with a wireless laptop. The pictures, he claimed, had been taken earlier that day of the bodies of Tibetan protesters who were taken inside the local monastery.
    It seems to me to be obvious that these pictures are not fake, and I am disappointed with the cynacism of some of the comments.
    I have also had contact with a monk whose 16 year old female student cousin was shot through the back of the skull on that day. She was reportedly trying to take down the sign above the police station in Ngawa and put up a picture of the missing Panchen Lama.
    Does that really warrent a death sentece without trail? Can a 16 year old girl really be classified as an instigator of terrorism, and a threat to national securrity?
    The media has all the pictures in their possesion, and explantions of how they came to be in our possesion, and yet it seems that the Chinese are managing to manipulate opinion and convince the world that they are the victims of ‘hateful crimes’. If this side of the story is never told, and these deaths covered up by Chinese propagande it will be shameful.

  172. 173 Arnold March 23, 2008 at 11:15 pm

    Let there be no mistake about it, the Communist China government is today, one of the most brutal and oppressive dictatorships in the world. Don’t be fooled by the crap you see coming from their public relations machine. Why has there been no popular media coverage of the atrocities which the PRC is guilty of? Do the large, multi-national corporations want the information squelched?

    When will the civilized governments of this world decide to pull out of the Olympics? Or will this too be a mockery as was the Olympics held when Hitler was in power? Those countries who attend the games in Beijing are saying “we condone the brutality and oppression of the Chinese communist dictatorship.

    I for one am disgusted with Bush saying Cuba must be free and North Korea must be free and the middle east must be free. What about China Mr. Bush? Don’t they deserve to be free too?

    See and read the truth about Communist China:

  173. 174 Arnold March 23, 2008 at 11:27 pm


    The Communist China government is always killing their own people. It is undeniable that during the Cultural Revolution Mao spearheaded one of the biggest blood baths in world history. Should we all forget tiananmen Square? Maybe check this out for a refreshers.

    What about the farmers who have protested about their land being taken by the government so it can be used for factories for large multinational corporations? The army and police have shot many of these protesters. “Police Beat Villagers, Torture Community Leaders” read about it here:

    Let there be no mistake about it, the Communist China government is today, one of the most brutal and oppressive dictatorships in the world. Don’t be fooled by the crap you see coming from their public relations machine. Why has there been no popular media coverage of the atrocities which the PRC is guilty of? Do the large, multi-national corporations want the information squelched?

    When will the civilized governments of this world decide to pull out of the Olympics? Or will this too be a mockery as was the Olympics held when Hitler was in power? Those countries who attend the games in Beijing are saying “we condone the brutality and oppression of the Chinese communist dictatorship.

    I for one am disgusted with Bush saying Cuba must be free and North Korea must be free and the middle east must be free. What about China Mr. Bush? Don’t they deserve to be free too?

  174. 175 jimmyleeca March 24, 2008 at 6:47 pm

    They had a riot, they killed others first, and themself got hurt or killed. It is their choice. Isn’t it? They are all adult responsible for their own behavior. Can’t imagine native indians wouldn’t get treated any better should they have a riot.

  175. 176 joejoe March 25, 2008 at 3:20 am

    There are also pictures released in Chinese media detailing the aftermath of the Aba riot. We can see buildings and cars were burnt. There are damaged police stations as well as shops and hotels.

    I’ve been to Aba county 2 years ago. Very peaceful place and the locals are very friendly and generally are happy with their life. There are quite a few famous tourist loctions in Aba county which makes a ideal place to make good money for the locals. The police presence there are not heavy, which is mainly for forest protection and local law enforcement.

    Why would people riot in such beautiful place? Why would anyone destroy their means of making living? Such craziness can only be explained by those hateful preachings such as those from Dalai’s regime.

    Let me ask you, if you could name a single country in the world where the security force won’t defend themselves when rioters try to break into police station, storm the government compound, or even dare to seize weapons.

    Even Chinese government released the casulty data of the rioters in Aba County. The cause is very clear, self defence. And these shown in your picture are no different than the insurgents. They are not civilians.

    But, do you ever hear anything related to civilian casulties from your media? These civilian casulties are rising because it takes time to clear up the mess. Did you hear the five young girls of both Han and Tibetan burnt alive in their shop? Did you hear the entire family, 8 month baby, the parents and their relatives were burnt alive in another shop? Did you ever hear anything about the rioters tried to burn down the muslim mosques? They are not peaceful protesters therefore they should be treated with deadly force, period.

  176. 177 joejoe March 25, 2008 at 3:27 am

    In the traditional Chinese society, the continuation of a family is very much respected. Any criminal committed of killing an entire family should be dealt with highest punishment of the law.

  177. 178 joejoe March 25, 2008 at 7:45 am

    Dalai and his so called exil government are liers. They keep boost up the casulty record while won’t release any concrete evidence except for 40 or so names. Giving your account of the origin of the photos, I wonder why there isn’t much of it to stand for their ruthless claim? The only answer is that there isn’t any except those resulted from desparate self defence.

    Dalai is a double faced figure, on the shiny outside, everything is humble and for peace, whereas the inside is filled with violence, lies and anger. It’s not the first time he used innocent Chinese (including Tibetan) lives for his own political gain. For a man who’s educated and advised by Nazi, funded by CIA, teacher of Shoko Asahara, it’s really shameful of the west to use this double faced figure to boost “Human Rights”. Dalai doesn’t understand a bit of human rights, he’s humble in front of the westerners because only the west can help him to regain his power.

  178. 179 angela March 25, 2008 at 11:28 am

    Well, well, well… all of you got it all wrong!

    Who are the big players? What are the real issues?

    These are just little NWO skirmishes for a higher goal. The cattle are slaughtered at the illuminati altar!

    Clever guys you are! vely vely good!

    Tibet National Flag— tels it all!

    China national flag – tells it all.

    The same people, the same goal… THEY HAVE WORKED IT OUT FOR CENTURIES.. now is the time! you are the cattle and the pawns, not worth a thing… you all can be reduced to a heap of meat, they dont care..

    All they want is China… to be the biggest church in Asia…

    Wake up you Chinese mafias! Fight for your DIGNITY!

  179. 180 joejoe March 26, 2008 at 2:56 am

    Upon what meat doth this our Caesar feed?

    In the infamous anti-communism roars in 1950s in post World War II US when McCarthyism is at its summit, Joseph R. McCarthy, Junior Senator from Wisconsin once quoted Shakespeare’s Cassius: “Upon what meat doth this our Caesar feed? (that he is grown so great)” in his attack on Army Secretary Stevens for his alleged protection of the alleged wide spread of communism in the army. Anyone who is aware of that part of US history would know how much fear and destruction McCarthyism had brought to American citizens and America as a nation. Fortunately enough that dark era is also a time that has many journalists such as Edward R. Murrow (CBS), who many considered as one of journalism’s greatest figures.

    In a series of TV news reports that helped lead to the censure of Senator McCarthy, Murrow once asked: “And upon what meat doth Senator McCarthy feed? Two of the staples of his diet are the investigation, protected by immunity, and the half-truth”, pointing out the typical tactics McCarthy had been using, that accusation was often used as proof and that conviction of the accused was often based upon evidence without named witness and without due process of law.

    As Murrow pointed out ever so clearly in the series of news report that whether particular accusations made by McCarthy is true or not (many are not) is of no importance but rather, as Truman put it, “it is the corruption of truth, the abandonment of the due process law. It is the use of the big lie and the unfounded accusation against any citizen in the name of Americanism or security. It is the rise to power of the demagogue who lives on untruth; it is the spreading of fear and the destruction of faith in every level of society”.

    In any journalism text book, I would assume that any reporter from CNN, Washington Post and BBC can quote better than I do, “To be persuasive, we must be believable; to be believable, we must be credible; to be credible, we must be truthful”. After all, they are the new generation of journalists that are inspired by the footsteps of Murrow, Cronkite, Woodward and Bernstein. Or, are they?

    In this recent events of violence broke out in Tibet, flood of reports, pictures, and videos were brought to all over the world. Many accusations were made along with many editorial comments, but few facts were presented objectively, and even less truth has been published by major media such as CNN, Washington Post, and BBC. It is neither my intention nor is it within my capacity to present the world what truly have happened in Tibet or to defend Chinese government, after all this is the time of information, many of us who want unbiased news report would be able to go through our own sources over the internet and see many sides of the stories as they are. It is my intention however, to point out that McCarthyism has, and still is corrupting the so called truth reported by most major media on anything that is related in anyway to communism. China as one of the only major power that is considered communism, certainly is and will always remain as the center piece.

    In one of the most famous photos that were first published by CNN, two Chinese military trucks drove through a deserted street in Lhasa while two Tibetan civilians wondered in far distance apparently in panic and in fear. Later several larger photos surfaced over the internet and it is obvious that the CNN photo was cropped carefully from one of them. What the CNN photo did not reveal, is that there was a mob of Tibetan rioters, throwing rocks to the cars and stores and setting some on fire. Why CNN chose to crop the picture in such way that is vastly different from the truth is certainly worth wondering, but not for us to find out. CNN’s official reply is that is due to the format limitation on the photos. Well, I will leave that for the reader themselves to judge its truthfulness.

    In another photo published on Washington Post’s website, several uniformed policemen armed with sticks were beating some appeared to be Tibetan protestors. The caption for the picture reads “China’s government is cracking down Tibetan protestors who took the streets to protest Chinese rule of the province”. Later it was some careful readers who questioned the policemen’s uniform discovered that the photo was originally published on a Nepal newspaper on police cracking down Tibetan protestors in Nepal.

    Once Murrow said, “We, like everyone in this business, are going to be judged by what we put on the air; but we also shall be judged by what we don’t broadcast. If we pull back on this we’ll have it with us always.” Now, why CNN and Washington Post choose to reduce themselves to a low level that is unprecedented to the mainstream journalism? Again, I will use Murrow’s words to answer that.

    Earlier, the senator asked, “Upon what meat does this, our Caesar feed?” Had he looked three lines earlier in Shakespeare’s ‘Caesar,’ he would have found this line, which is not altogether inappropriate: “The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves.”

    Yes, all of us, as little as we may realize it, McCarthyism is still among us. We fear communism, not for its ideas but for the part that it is so vastly different from ours, that anyone or any nation that is associated with it must be evil and hence must be treated as one. The reporters at CNN and Washington Post did not created all this, they merely exploited it – and rather successfully as they always have been. No one man can bias a whole nation and whole world unless we are all his accomplices. Cassius was right. The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves.

    Once Murrow said, “We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home”. There could not be more trueth to that. Equally if not more importantly, we can not proclaim ourselves the defenders of freedom, in one place in the world while deserting it elsewhere. Unfortunately today, in the new era beyond the years of Murrow, Cronkite, Woodward and Bernstein, the journalists in CNN, Washington Post, etc, have shown us just that.

  180. 181 pyroxene March 26, 2008 at 4:46 am

    Please help the Tibetans by not giving them false hope!

    I believe most of the westerners supporting the Tibetan claims are out of good will. However, good will does not guarantee good results. If you want to really help the Tibetans, please do it in a right way. Please do not give them false hopes.

    After all the sadness in the past, the Native Americans in the US, and the Aborigines in Australia, etc., are living a better life than what they would have been without the Whites. Some may say that they are still 2nd-class but really, their lives are probably better than the mid-class in the China or India.

    What if you encourage them to claim independent, or try to drive the Whites out? Well, the results probably won’t be romantic. They may get killed, injured, jailed, homeless, starving …, though the white people will be hurt, too. So what is good for anybody?

    Chinese has been trying to control Tibet for thousands of years even before Columbus found the New World. There were many wars between Han Chinese and Tibetans in the past and the conflict is still here today. Asking the Chinese to move out of Tibet is as silly as remove all Whites from the US. The Chinese have military and economical superiority over native Tibetans, just like what Whites have over native Indians. It is impossible to ask someone who has better hands to give up.

    If you really know what compromise Chinese have made to Tibetans and compare those to what Whites gave the native Indians and Africans, you will be amazed how generous it is. The Tibetans do have “super-citizenship” in China. Why Tibetans still started a riot, because they are pursuing a mission impossible which is to remove all Chinese from Tibet.

    If you really want to help them, please don’t give them a false hope of independence. Please do not encourage them to carry on a mission impossible. Please do not encourage them to suicide. Please do encourage them to get over the hatred. Please do help them to have a peaceful mind. For Tibetans in your country, please do help them get the citizenship of your country and let them settle in.

  181. 182 pyroxene March 26, 2008 at 4:47 am

    The above post was stimulated by the previous post of phabulosa. Thanks.

  182. 183 RedCloud March 26, 2008 at 2:02 pm

    I do not think the present Chinese Empire will last forever. It is too big and times will come when the central government will loose its iron grip – then some of the present provinces will surely become independent states. History is repeating itself. So even if there is no possibility in the present for a free Tibet, its culture, religion, language and people has to be saved for the future. And this is the plan of the Dalai Lama I think – get the best compromise and never give up the hope for freedom. I am on their side and support them as I can.

  183. 184 RedCloud March 26, 2008 at 3:17 pm

    During World War II. no one in America beleived that in nazi Germany Jews are going to be exterminated in camps. They considered rumours about the camps as a jewish lie, a propaganda in order to drew the United States into war.
    As I read the opinion of some people on this page, I think they still do not beleive in the holocaust. What kind of evidence you need about killing innocent people?
    The chinese communist regime killed millions of their own people under the Cultural Revolution, then thousands in the Tienanment protests. They patronized the mass murderer Pol Pot regime in Cambodia and are now patronizing a bloody military junta in Mianmar.
    I think only people living in developed western countries can be misleaded by communist propaganda. Any one, who ever lived under dictatorship, like people in Eastern-Europe, Middle-East, Latin-America etc. the situation in Tibet is clear without any more evidence.

  184. 185 joejoe March 27, 2008 at 3:17 am

    RedCloud, you’re truely a brainwashed idiot, or even worse, you’re pretending to be one. We Chinese all believe there is holocaust, which is taught in our history text book in any Chinese school. Same as the history of the American Indian, the Philipinoes, the Africans. It’s true that no country will last forever, not even the mighty Roman empire. But you got to ask youself a question, will China be the next falling empire or the United States? I think everyone knows the answer.

  185. 186 joejoe March 27, 2008 at 4:01 am

    Why They Hate China
    Well, you have to hate someone…
    by Justin Raimondo
    China’s continuing crackdown on Tibetan pro-independence protesters is a big, big issue here in San Francisco. Why, just the other day, I was coming out my front door, and there was one of my neighbors – a very nice woman in her fifties, albeit an archetypal limousine liberal, typical of the breed. So typical that she might almost be mistaken for a living, breathing, walking, talking cliché. She hates George W. Bush and the neocons because she’s against the (Iraq) war, but she’s eager to “liberate” Darfur – and, lately, Tibet. That morning, as she earnestly informed me, she was on her way to a meeting of the Board of Supervisors (our town council) to exhort them to vote for a resolution condemning the Chinese government’s actions and calling for “freedom” for Tibet. What she doesn’t realize, and doesn’t want to know, is that she and the neocons – the very ones who brought us the Iraq war – are united on the Tibet issue. I tried, in vain, to point this out to her, but she just shook her head, cut the conversation short, and was on her way…
    As it turned out, the supervisors voted for a meaningless, toothless resolution, stripped of provocative rhetoric, much to the dismay of the far-lefties who argued for a stronger statement. The initiative for this effort was made by supervisor Chris Daly, an obnoxious left-liberal with delusions of grandeur, whose pose of self-righteousness is both grating and characteristic of his sort.

    Prior to the vote on the Daly resolution, which was vociferously supported by the supposedly pacifistic supporters of the Dalai Lama, the Chinese consulate was… firebombed. This is what the War Party would like to do to China.

    Fortunately, there are a number of restraining factors that get in the way: in the meantime, however, our preening politicians demagogue the China issue, and none so brazenly as Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, my congressional representative, who is merely Chris Daly writ large. Traveling all the way to India, at taxpayers’ expense, Madam Speaker visited with the Dalai Lama at Dharamsala and announced that if Americans don’t speak out against Beijing’s repression in Tibet “we have lost all moral authority to speak on behalf of human rights anywhere in the world.”

    Pelosi is a longtime opponent of Beijing – not just the Chinese government, but China itself. Pelosi and the unions she depends on for political support despise all things Chinese for the simple reason that China, today, is more capitalist than the U.S. – in spite of the Chinese Communist Party’s ostensible commitment to Marxist ideology. Thinly veiled racist-chauvinist bilge is routinely directed at the Chinese people by union bosses and right-wing paleo-protectionists, who stupidly claim that the “s” (or, as John McCain would put it, the “gooks”) are stealing “American jobs” – as if Americans have a hereditary right to the very best salaries on earth, a “right” that doesn’t have to be earned by competitive business practices but is conferred on them by virtue of their nationality. Like hell it is.

    Lucrative trade and cultural exchanges between China and California, as well as the fact that many Chinese in her congressional district have continuing ties to the mainland, have – so far – failed to deter Pelosi and her fellow Know-Nothings: politics, as they used to say during the Cultural Revolution in China, is in command.

    These Sinophobic protests, engineered behind the scenes by leftist union bosses and God knows who else, are focused on the passing of the Olympic torch, which is slowly but surely making its way to Beijing, where the games are scheduled to be held Aug. 8-24. Here in the Bay Area, activists in the “Free Darfur” movement announced they were mounting demonstrations urging China to “extinguish the flames of genocide” in Darfur in San Francisco on April 9, the day the flame passes through the city.

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    The hosting of the Olympic Games in Beijing is the focus of much pride in China, seen by the people as well as the ruling caste as symbolic of the nation’s arrival in modernity. As such, the worldwide protests and political posturing of preening politicians – from Pelosi to Nicolas Sarkozy – are bitterly resented and have been met with increasingly shrill denunciations by the Chinese state-controlled media – a sentiment that probably understates popular resentment of Western criticism in the Chinese “street.”

    I know we are supposed to believe that the vast majority of the Chinese people are groaning under the weight of Commie oppression and sympathize (albeit silently) with the downtrodden Tibetans, but that is hardly the case. Indeed, the exact opposite is closer to the truth. Every time the West gets up on its high horse and lectures the Chinese government about its lack of “morality,” the tide of anti-Western Chinese nationalism rises higher.

    We saw this when the U.S. “accidentally” bombed the Chinese embassy in Belgrade during Clinton’s Balkan War of Aggression, and again when that American spy plane went down over Hainan island. In Beijing today, they are worried about the upcoming Olympic celebration, which will provide a platform for a wide variety of groups – including ultra-nationalist Chinese students, whose street antics have augured internal regime change in the past, and could do so again. “They are worried about a larger number of things and they are worried about keeping the lid on,” according to Arnold Howitt, a management specialist who oversees crisis-management training programs for Chinese government officials at Harvard University’s Kennedy School of Government. The same Associated Press article cites an unnamed “consultant” to the Games, who avers:

    “‘Demonstrations of all kinds are a concern, including anti-American demonstrations,’ said the consultant, who works for Beijing’s Olympic organizers and asked not to be identified because he was not authorized to talk to the media.”

    Any indications that Beijing is compromising Chinese pride and honor by appeasing the West are likely to be met by demonstrations that are both anti-American and anti-government – initiated, once again, by Chinese students, who have often been the agents of political transformation. Remember the Red Guards? Mao used them to initiate his own “Cultural Revolution,” but was forced to rein them in when they started talking about overthrowing the Chinese state.

    The memory of that dark and chaotic era haunts China’s contemporary rulers, threatening to spoil their dream of a thoroughly modernized industrial powerhouse that is both the forge and the financial capital of the world economy. The Beijing Olympics represent the entry of China onto the world stage as a first-class power, right up there with its former adversaries: the U.S., Europe, and the former Soviet Union. A Chinese nationalist cannot be faulted for seeing the organized campaign to spoil that debut as a deliberate – and unforgivable – insult.

    Viewed from this perspective – the perspective, that is, of the average citizen of China – the very idea of Tibetan independence might easily be seen as a rather obvious attempt to humiliate Beijing and remind it of its “proper” (i.e., subordinate) place in the global scheme of things.

    After all, what if Chinese government leaders constantly reminded the world that the American Southwest was stolen from Mexico? Imagine the Chinese and Mexican ambassadors to the U.S. demanding independence, for, say, California – or better yet, its return to Mexican sovereignty! Shall the Olympics be forever barred from Puerto Rico, which was forcibly incorporated into the U.S. “commonwealth” in the invasion of 1898?

    Of course not. Yet the Americans and their international amen corner are daring to criticize China for preserving its own unity and sovereignty. It’s a double standard made all the more insufferable by the self-righteous tone of the anti-China chorus, whose meistersingers are mainly concerned with celebrating their own moral purity.

    Yes, Tibet was forcibly incorporated into the Communist empire of the Han, but this was just an episode in the long history of Sino-Tibetan relations – for the greater part of which the Tibetans held the upper hand. The Tibetan empire, at its height, extended from northern India to the Mongolian hinterlands and came at the expense of the conquered Chinese and Uighurs. It fell apart due to a ruinous civil war. A key factor in this complex narrative is that Mongol hegemony over China was greatly aided by the Tibetans, whose conversion of the Mongol nobility to Buddhism legitimized Mongol rule. Today, pro-Beijing historians point to this period as proof that Tibet has “always” been a part of China proper, yet the truth is that both were slaves to the Mongols – the Tibetans as their collaborators, the Chinese as their helots. (Underscoring Mongol contempt for their Chinese subjects was an edict forbidding intermarriage between Mongol and Chinese, although no such barrier to Mongol-Tibetan congress was imposed.) With Buddhism as the state religion, Tibetan priests, including the Dalai Lama, became the avatars of Mongol rule.

    In short, the popular narrative of the pacifistic Buddhist Tibetans as the good guys and the Han Chinese as the bad-guy aggressors is the stuff of pure myth, pushed by union propagandists, lefty Hollywood do-gooders, and trendy sandal-wearing Western camp followers of the Dalai Lama, who has become a secularized yet “spiritual” substitute for Mother Theresa.

    If the Chinese are wrong to hold on to their province of Tibet, then Lincoln was wrong to insist that the South stay in the Union – and we ought to immediately either grant the American Southwest (and California) independence, or else give it all back to the Mexicans.

    The same goes for Taiwan – China’s rulers are no more likely to give up their claim to that island than Lincoln was inclined to let the Confederacy hold on in, say, Key West, Fla.

    China is an adolescent giant: clumsy, unused to exerting its will beyond its borders, and wracked by self-doubt. Emerging into the company of world powers, it is thin-skinned – like any adolescent – and prone to wild mood gyrations. During the 1960s and ’70s, the Chinese were in a distinctly bad mood as they wrestled with the ghosts and demons unleashed by Mao. The triumph of the “modernizers” over the ultra-left Maoists in the 1980s signaled a new mood of optimism and inaugurated an era of unrivaled economic growth. The regime sanctified China’s journey down the “capitalist road” by citing the reformer Deng Tsiao-ping’s most famous “Communist” slogan: “To get rich is glorious!” Ayn Rand meets Chairman Mao (or, rather, Confucius) – and the result is capitalism-on-steroids.

    That’s why, in spite of the sclerotic Marxoid ideology that still reins in and retards the natural entrepreneurial spirit of the Chinese people, China is moving forward by leaps and bounds. That’s also why comrade Pelosi and her union boss buddies have launched this odious Sinophobic hate campaign – because “their” jobs and sense of entitlement are going up in smoke. For decades, the U.S. government has preached the virtues of free enterprise and urged formerly Communist nations to adopt the free market – and now that the Chinese have taken them up on their offer, Western politicians are attacking them!

    The closer China has moved toward our own system – relaxing totalitarian controls over the economy and allowing a far greater degree of ideological diversity than was possible during the Maoist era – the more hostile the U.S. government has become. Nixon went to China at the height of the Cultural Revolution, where he sat next to Madam Mao during a command performance of The Red Detachment of Women. These days, however, as China stakes its claim to a proportionate share of the world market – and Chinese investors fund the U.S. debt – the resentment and growing hostility of the Americans is all too palpable.

    Why do politicians of Pelosi’s ilk join hands with neoconservatives in a concerted campaign to antagonize China, and even threaten sanctions and possible military action when the occasion gives rise to the opportunity?

    To begin with, China’s is a success story, and there’s nothing that attracts opprobrium like success, unless it’s success of the wrong color – in this case, yellow. A crude racist collectivism of a specifically anti-Asian character has long been a tradition of the War Party in this country: see the anti-Japanese Dr. Seuss cartoons from the World War II era for a particularly vivid example. Yes, he was attacking the “Japs,” but to Americans, it’s all the same Yellow Peril. This kind of sentiment is easily invoked in America, and don’t tell me Pelosi and her ideological confreres aren’t aware of it – yes, even in “liberal” San Francisco, where anti-Asian sentiment is part of the city’s history.

    Never mind the first black president, or the first female president – what I’m waiting for is the first chief executive of Asian-American descent. I’m not, however, holding my breath…

    Relations with China are cloudy, at best, and those may very well be war clouds gathering on the horizon. The reason is that Sinophobia is a point of unity between the Left and the Right: the union of the Weekly Standard and the AFL-CIO, and perhaps even the majority of my paleoconservative friends, who quail before the rising Chinese giant and see it as a potential threat on account of its sheer scale – a third of the world’s population, and a land-mass that rivals our own. Surely such a stirring titan will knock us out of the way as he takes his place at the center of the world stage.

    This reflects a fundamental error on the part of many conservatives, as well as liberals of the more statist persuasion. They fail to understand that there are no conflicts of interest among nations as long as their relations are governed by the market, that is by mutually beneficial trade agreements voluntarily entered into. Ludwig von Mises said it far better than I could ever manage, and I’ll leave my readers to Mises’ ministrations on this abstruse but important subject.

    Suffice to say here that our relations with China on the economic front are a benefit to American consumers – that is, to all of us. They enable us to buy inexpensive quality products and keep the cost of living down. Protectionists who argue that “they” are “destroying American jobs” are simply arguing for higher prices – ordinarily not a very popular cause, and especially not these days.

    Free trade is the economic precondition for a peaceful world and the logical corollary of a non-interventionist foreign policy. If goods don’t cross borders, then armies soon will – a historical truism noted by many before me, and with good reason. Let it be a warning to all those anti-free trade, antiwar types of the Right as well as the Left – you’ll soon be jumping on the War Party’s bandwagon when it comes China’s turn to play the role of global bogeyman. The way things are going, that day may come soon enough.

    Finally, a word or two about this nonsensical demand, raised by the “Save Darfur” crowd, that China must somehow “extinguish the flames of genocide” supposedly carried out by the government of Sudan. What does China have to do with Sudan and its government? Well, you see, the Chinese have oil interests in the region, that is, they are engaged in competition with Western oil companies in opening up new fields – and, well, that just isn’t permissible.

    The Chinese, we are told, have a moral responsibility to either pressure the Sudanese to let up on Darfur, or else abandon their Sudanese assets. As if Sudan were a Chinese colony, and the Sudanese authorities mere sock-puppets of Beijing.

    A more arrogant and self-serving argument would be hard to imagine. Presumably Western interests will fill the vacuum left by this spontaneous display of Chinese moral rectitude – and that alone should tell us everything we need to know about what’s behind the “Save Darfur” bloviators and their high-horse moralizing.

    If our professional do-gooders of the “progressive” persuasion are so concerned about the fate of Darfur, let them campaign for the granting of mass asylum to the survivors of this latest African catastrophe. Give them sanctuary and green cards, but keep U.S. troops out of Africa, specifically out of Darfur – and get off Beijing’s back.

    Like Russia, China is awakening from the long Leninist nightmare, albeit less traumatically, and with greater prospects for full recovery. However, it wouldn’t take much to push it back into a revival of neo-Maoism – or worse – and a new dark age triggered by an external threat. A resurgence of Chinese ultra-nationalism in response to Western pressure – and the specter of U.S.-sponsored separatism – does not augur well for the cause of world peace. As is so often the case, we are creating the very enemies we fear, empowering and arming them ideologically. We are, in this sense, our own worst enemies.

    ~ Justin Raimondo

  186. 187 gus March 27, 2008 at 10:00 am

    Let me ask you ‘Joejoe’, do you happen to work for the Chinese adminsitrations propaganda machine?

  187. 188 Joejoe March 27, 2008 at 5:17 pm


    Oh for god sake, why do you guys always brand others with different opionion as government propaganda machine? Is this what you called true democracy? Where is the so called free speech? Or the claimed democracy and free speech are just lies of another propaganda agenda.

    I’m Chinese and I sympathize the innocent Chinese (including Tibetans) civilian being slaughtered in the riot. I firmly believe the current Dalai Lama is nothing but human garbage. He’s patronized by Nazi, funded by CIA, teacher of terrorist cult and leader of ethnic riot. There are tons of proof out there and many of them have nothing to do with Chinese government propaganda.

    Being an ordinary Chinese citizen, we used to favor western media over our government’s. However, the more we read, the more we found ourselves being fooled, the same way or even worse than being fooled by our government. Chinese government propaganda is obsolete and full of corrupted bureaucracy. They are really slow in responding to breaking events. Sometimes I wish the Chinese government could learn a lesson or two from these incidents.

    One last thing, If you couldn’t tolerate my opinion, I suggest you go somewhere else.

  188. 189 JoeJoe is our Hero! March 28, 2008 at 2:29 am

    Joejoe I can’t believe you are still here! You are my Hero and I think you are all our Chinese People’s hero!

    You fight for your people, you fight for your country, you fight for your believe!

    I really wish there are more Chinese people like you who can use excellent English to let the world know the truth face of China! A country we live in and a country we love!

  189. 190 I care about Tibet March 28, 2008 at 2:44 am

    Care for a read everyone?

  190. 191 busibodie March 28, 2008 at 1:32 pm

    spent the whole day browsing through all these contributions. I dare not say I am objective, but I dare say: those who have not been to China, and to different places there, regularly for the past 20 years, and those who have lost money in their business with and in China, and those who have ever dined in a lousy restaurants in China, and those who subconsciously feel China’s rise as a world power hurts your hereditary pride, please shut up your stinky mouths.

    this Tibetan riot, Darfur issue have just made me understand how the so-called democratic western governments and the western media convey their vicious hereditary enmity towards us Chinese. Punishments will fall on those whose human conscience gets rotten.

  191. 192 Anonymous March 30, 2008 at 1:11 am

    you never know the truth but saying the unfair words to the chinese !
    It is the truest that you go to tibet and learn what Deceive you!

  192. 193 joejoe March 30, 2008 at 4:23 pm

    Trust CNN? Think it twice.

    U.S. Army ‘Psyops’ Specialists worked for CNN
    By Abe de Vries
    From the Dutch newspaper, Trouw, 21 February 2000

    WASHINGTON, ATLANTA – For a short time last year, CNN employed military specialists in ‘psychological operations’ (psyops). This was confirmed to Trouw by a spokesman of the U.S. Army. The military could have influenced CNN’s news reports about the crisis in Kosovo.

    “Psyops personnel, soldiers and officers, have been working in CNN’s headquarters in Atlanta through our program ‘Training With Industry,'” said Major Thomas Collins of the U.S. Army Information Service in a telephone interview last Friday. “They worked as regular employees of CNN. Conceivably, they would have worked on stories during the Kosovo war. They helped in the production of news.”

    These military, a “handful” according to Collins, stayed with CNN for at least a couple of weeks “to get to know the company and to broaden their horizons”. Collins maintains that “they didn’t work under the control of the army.” The temporary outplacement of U.S. Army psyops personnel in various sectors of society began a couple of years ago. Contract periods vary from a couple of weeks to one year.

    CNN is the biggest and most widely viewed news station in the world. The intimate liaisons with army psyops specialists raise serious doubts about CNN’s journalistic integrity and independence. The military CNN-personnel belonged to the airmobile Fourth Psychological Operations Group, stationed at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. One of the main tasks of this group of almost 1200 soldiers and officers is to spread ‘selected information’.

    American psyops troops try with a variety of techniques to influence media and public opinion in armed conflicts in which American state interests are said to be at stake. The propaganda group was involved in the Gulf war, the Bosnian war and the crisis in Kosovo.

    So far CNN has not commented on the allegations. “I don’t believe that we would employ military personnel; it doesn’t seem like something we would normally do,” said CNN-spokeswoman Megan Mahoney on Friday evening. But when the U.S. Army Information Service confirmed the news, Mahoney said she would have to contact CNN’s senior officials. However, on Sunday evening CNN still could not provide an official statement to Trouw.

    CNN’s coverage of the war in Kosovo, and that of other media, has attracted criticism from several sides as having been one-sided, overly emotional, over-simplified and relying too heavily on NATO officials. On the other hand, journalists have complained about the lack of reliable information from NATO; for almost all of them it was impossible to be on the battlefield and file first-hand reports.

    or more on the connection between CNN and U.S. Army opinion-control operations, see ‘The American army loves CNN

  193. 194 joejoe March 30, 2008 at 4:42 pm

    CNN is a biased news media, no question about it. But the ties between US government with CNN prove it’s not only a biased media, but also a government propaganda machine. We used to think CNN is biased because the view of its reporters and editors is of limited angle, or lack of knowledge about the culture and history of other parts of the world. In fact, it’s a sophisticated propaganda warfare joint orchestrated by both US government agencie and corporate branches.

  194. 195 joejoe March 30, 2008 at 5:57 pm

    US government response to American India independence:

    Gary Garrison of the BIA said that the group’s withdrawal (from United States) “doesn’t mean anything”. “These are not legitimate tribal governments elected by the people”, he said, but cautioned that “when they begin the process of violating other people’s rights, breaking the law, they’re going to end up like all the other groups that have declared themselves independent – usually getting arrested and being put in jail”.

  195. 196 Joejoe April 1, 2008 at 11:36 pm

    An Independent Tibet was just a plain lie being used for a propaganda purpose.

    Watch the following YouTube video:

    A documentary shot by the War Dept of US in 1944. Scroll to 3:00, shows a full map of China by then, and to 3:40 to describe the then Tibet region in China. If Tibet was part of China even in 1944, why do you western propaganda always mention it’s invaded by China in 1950? It’s because everything supported or denounced by the west has to serve a purpose, which is for your west’s own interest. In 1944, when WWII was at its height, US was ally with then Chinese government for stance against Imperial Japan. In 1950, the tune has shifted to anti-communism, so everything became China invaded Tibet. The US even pursued a sanction against Chinese invasion of Tibet in UN Security Counsel , a stance even rejected by its anti-communism ally, the government of Republic of China (now ruling the province of Taiwan), because it’s against the Constitution of Republic of China, a republic of 5 major ethnic Chinese populations, the Hans, the Huis (Muslims), the Zhangs (Tibetan), the Mongolian, the Manchurian. The same stance that is inherit by the current Chinese government (The People’s Republic of China). There are 5 yellow stars on our National Flag, and each represents a major ethnic groups. As an ordinary Chinese, branding Tibet as un-Chinese is not acceptable. We’ll fight to our death to anyone who tries to break our nation apart.

    To Tibetan gathered under the flag of Dalai’s government, you’re traitor to your own country and only bring shame to your ancestors.

    To Westerners for Free Tibet movement, shame on you! May you burn in the eternal fire of the hell!

  196. 197 Jimmy April 3, 2008 at 2:45 pm

    You who said Tibet was an independent country and was invaded by China in 1951 shall read this book: Goldstein, Melvyn C., The Snow Lion and The Dragon (Berkeley and Los Angeles: University of California Press, 1997). The author is an US profession who merried a Tibet. Though it was written many years ago, you can still learn some truth and history about Tibet.

  197. 198 Joanna April 3, 2008 at 5:26 pm

    Freedom for Tibet!

  198. 199 Joejoe April 3, 2008 at 10:15 pm

    What’s you proclaimed “Freedom”? A CIA technical term for:

    Freedom for fabricating and spreading lies
    Freedom for provoking ethnic violence
    Freedom for invading, occupying, exploiting and enslaving others

  199. 200 joejoe April 4, 2008 at 4:33 am

    3 Tibetan bomb makers were killed in India. Probably an accident while making bombs. Before calling them peace protesters, think twice!

    I feel pitty that these Tibetans threw themselves in a suicidal course. Wake up, you are just Dalai’s tool for his own gain.

  200. 201 8341ma April 4, 2008 at 5:28 am

    I highly doubt the reality of the pictures posted here. Where did you get it? Also you did not prove the person in the pictures was killed by Chinese govenment.

    We have seen too many lies made by the Dalai Lama groups, Free Tibetan and so on.

    You said over 100 persons were killed. Then where were they, how did you counted? What’s the names and addresses of them?? You provided a lot of statements, but not a real picture or video to show the scene of vilance by Chinese government. On the contrary we saw a whole bunch of videos showing the monks were laying out vilance.

    Dalai Lama Groups had very bad record of lying. For example, he said the vilance was carried out by Chines soldiers, using a picture as evidence. However, it has been proven that the picture was taken in a film shooting serveral years ago!! That film was starred by Micheal Yong!

    How shameful for Dalai as a religious leader to tell such a stupid lie. Really not responsible.

  201. 202 8341ma April 4, 2008 at 5:33 am

    I agree with joejoe.

  202. 203 8341ma April 4, 2008 at 5:51 am

    When the riot happened, there were a lot of visitors and reporters in Lhasa. The all have vedio cameras/cameras, why no body can provide a single picture of vilance by Chinese government?? Tell you, because the police got an order not to fight back to the roiters even when the police were cut by the mobs with swords! Police men were also killed and injured. We also had a lot of foreign witness saying the mobs hurting innocent people, but not the police!

    So, please, for the sake of the god and yourselves, stop lying. You can not succeed with lies, which will make 1.3 billion Chinese inside or outside China to be your emermy.

    Tell you, we are ditermined to protect the truth and our people. Your ugly show and the pressure from the western society can only make us more and more united firmly.

  203. 204 Luke Albert April 4, 2008 at 1:17 pm

    Were those wound or dead bodied involved in attaching innocent people and threatening their lives or burning others properties? If answer were yes. I believe they deserve what they committed like how American treated those Middle East terrorists by shooting, bombing or capturing them.

  204. 205 foxjone April 4, 2008 at 4:12 pm


  205. 206 Yao April 6, 2008 at 3:10 pm

    I don’t know. Is there any evidence to verify that these pictures are in any way related to the riots took place recently in Lhasa? Yet there are plenty of videos presenting the world that it was a bunch of rioters looting shops and killing innocent people on the streets of Lhasa. I have been so tired of hearing unproved news reports repeatedly from the Tibetan gov. in exile which later were proven to be either fabricated or manipulated.

  206. 207 Helena April 7, 2008 at 7:55 pm

    Human rights?! Do you think there is human rights, peace or justice when you are a slave ?!

    There was slavery in Tibet before the Communists came.

    And Dalai Lama supports slavery.

    Do you think this is a good example of a Nobel Prize winner ?!

  207. 208 Joejoe April 8, 2008 at 8:15 pm

    A new video just come out with independent topic on Tibet.

    I fully appreciate the effort of the author of the video.

  208. 209 Joejoe April 8, 2008 at 9:42 pm

    From the view point of regular Chinese people, we used to think the people of the western countries are civilized, educated and peaceful people. The past 30 years had been a great social experience for most Chinese, as we are developing our economy as well as our social structure. We’re trying to learn from the west about the true essence of democracy, the philosophy of fair play and the practice of human rights. We’re trying to fit in this world by following the rules and norms setup by the western countries. Even the government agencies have gradually reform themselves from authority oriented to service oriented.

    However, the series events broke out recently completely destroyed our view of the world. Now we think the general population in the west are very much hatred toward China and Chinese. They are selfish, violent, uneducated, and uncivilized. They are ignorant and self centered.

    With such hatred in mind, it’s foolish to consider they could change their mind for better. The world is still a jungle and the law of jungle still prevails.

    Chinese poeple should reconsider the rules and norms setup by the western countries, for the rules are set to be broken. Why should we be subject to carbon emission pact? Why should we follow the nuclear nonproliferation treaty? Why should we respect other nations’ sovereignty?

  209. 210 Joejoe April 9, 2008 at 3:48 pm

    To play in world of jungle, we have to learn from CIA and MI6, to spread lies and rumors for our interest, to sell arms to our enemies’ enemy, to fund our enemy’s anti-government movement, to provoke civil unrest in our enemies’, to flame instead of tame the conflicts, of course, all of these can be done in the name of equality of human beings, in the name of fair and justice, and in the name of better human experience.

    Also we have to learn from the Wall Street, we need to excert our financial powers to mess up the world economy, to create financial crisis, to destroy the credit system of our enemy and to create food and energy shortage around the globe.

    Also we have to learn from the west to build a military with reach around the globe, to arm ourselves with nuclear weapons in the size of one time world destruction (even though the west has the capabilities to destroy the world couple of times), to build missile defence system and star war system, to build world wide survaillence satellite system. Such power then can be used to establish and support our own system of international law.

    If you want an enemy to play with, that’s what you’re going to get for the least.

    If you want us be your enemy, we’ll be the best.

  210. 211 Joejoe April 10, 2008 at 4:27 am

    “What do you want from Us?”
    – A Poem Dedicated to the last 150 years of this planet.
    By a Slient, Silent Chinese.

    When We were called Sick man of Asia, We were called The Peril.
    When We are billed to be the next Superpower, We are called The threat.

    When We were closed our doors, You smuggled Drugs to Open Markets.
    When We Embrace Freed Trade, You blame us for Taking away your jobs.

    When We were falling apart, You marched in your troops and wanted your “fair share”.
    When We were putting the broken peices together again, “Free Tibet” you screamed, “it was an invasion!”

    ( When Woodrow Wilson Couldn’t give back Birth Place of Confucius back to Us,
    But He did bought a ticket for the Famine Relief Ball for us.)

    So, We Tried Communism, You hated us for being Communists
    When We embrace Capitalism, You hate us for being Capitalist.

    When We have a Billion People, you said we were destroying the planet.
    When We are tried limited our numbers, you said It was human rights abuse.

    When We were Poor, You think we are dogs.
    When We Loan you cash, You blame us for your debts.

    When We build our industries, You called us Polluters.
    When we sell you goods, You blame us for global warming.

    When We buy oil, You called that exploitation and Genocide.
    When You fight for oil, You called that Liberation.

    When We were lost in Chaos and rampage, You wanted Rules of Law for us.
    When We uphold law and order against Violence, You called that Violating Human Rights.

    When We were silent, You said you want us to have Free Speech.
    When We were silent no more, You say we were Brainwashed-Xenophoics.

    Why do you hate us so much? We asked.
    “No,” You Answered, “We don’t hate You.”

    We don’t Hate You either,
    But Do you understand us?

    “Of course We do,” You said,
    “We have AFP, CNN and BBCs…”

    What do you really want from us?
    Think Hard first, then Answer…

    Because you only get so many chances,
    Enough is Enough, Enough Hypocrisy for this one world.

    We want One World, One Dream, And Peace On Earth.
    – This Big Blue Earth is Big Enough for all of Us.

    never mind the racist thick fake accent,
    I am sure this video Just want human Rights.

    If you don’t know the above references,
    Go to libraries and Do your own research.
    don’t get your facts from the tube,
    You wouldn’t have a Clue.

    Any one is free to use this poem,
    Copy Right Notice,
    Just Give The Credit,
    to the Silent, Silent Chinese.

    Thank You and Peace.

  211. 212 AmericanBornTibetan April 10, 2008 at 5:52 am

    I think people need both sides of the story. Those guys would be defined as “terrorist” in US, and armies would be sent to any country they reside.

    As a ABT, I just want to say to American: “Stop killing Indians, Free California!”

  212. 213 霄汉居士 April 10, 2008 at 7:28 am


  213. 214 Harry April 10, 2008 at 8:33 am

    Do your guys know who are the really killers? Some Tibet mobs who got paid by overseas Tibet exile groups? Do you know how much is the price? More than $8/hour? Not a bad deal, right?

    Use your brain!

  214. 215 Daliar April 10, 2008 at 8:35 am

    Liar!!!! All these photos were shoot on 7/1/2005!!! Shame on you!!!
    Download the large photos and open it with picasa or iPhoto, you will see the EXIF information of these photos which tell you the truth!!!

  215. 216 foxjone April 10, 2008 at 9:30 am

    Joejoe ,you are my hero,youare a hero of all chinese 1! 英雄joejoe,加油!爱国的国人都为您而骄傲,我把您舌战群敌的事迹告诉了我得家人,告诉了 的网友,您的发言被贴在国内网站,被译成中文,极大的鼓舞了爱国的国人。加油!

  216. 217 Anonymous April 10, 2008 at 10:08 am

    JOEJOE 我们永远支持你。我是一名军人,随时准备为国家为人民而战斗。我充满敬意看完所有你的文章,支持你。希望能够继续,用你的智慧你的文采,为正义而战。谢谢你!

  217. 218 recool April 10, 2008 at 10:30 am

    JoeJoe, I salute you!

  218. 219 Jason April 10, 2008 at 10:46 am

    First of all, these photos were taken on 7/1/2005. Even if they were recent pictures (which they aren’t), they still might be the victims of the crazy monks. You haven’t proved your point at all. You may want to see the real video flimed by an australian tourist Michael Smith, broadcasted by ABC. Watch it yourself.

  219. 220 Jason April 10, 2008 at 10:46 am

    First of all, these photos were taken on 7/1/2005. Even if they were recent pictures (which they aren’t), they still might be the photos of victims of the mobs. You haven’t proved your point at all.
    You may want to see the real video flimed by an australian tourist Michael Smith, broadcasted by ABC. Watch it yourself.

  220. 221 Joejoe April 10, 2008 at 6:19 pm

    Let’s see what kind of low-life really works at CNN:

    CNN anchor Jack Cafferty’s view about Chinese people in general:
    “They are basically the same bunch of goons and thugs as they were in the past 50 years.”

    Watch the video at around 1:00:

    No doubt this anchor is a deep rooted racist. Shame on you CNN for hiring such a human garbage to be your news anchor and reporter.

    Boycott CNN and its boss Time Warner. Sue them for the racist remark.

  221. 222 Anonymous April 10, 2008 at 6:57 pm

    Those sons of bitches from CNN are good at cutting photos in Lhasa, good at making terrific lies, good at changing black to white. Lying is the job of those nuts. Who knows where the hell the blogger got those pseudo photos. They must be paid a lot to do this.

  222. 223 Joejoe April 11, 2008 at 12:01 am

    Freedom to attack disabled people? Fellow Free Tibet supporters, is this the freedom you’re fighting for?

    Let us all remember this very day, April 7th, 2008, on the sunny street of Paris, the most civilized city in Europe, two disabled Chinese athletes, Jinjing and the blind athlete helping her with the wheelchairs, was attacked by a so called “peaceful” Tibetan protester. The very protester who was arrested in the London Torch Relay 3 days earlier.

    What a shame to Paris, to France, to European Union, to the so called free world. You let it happen in broad daylight yet no criticisms or condemns ever given from your so called fair and balanced media. What an exhibition of hypocrisy, in which human rights are meant for your selected kind. I think it’s time to express our anger by boycotting European goods. Say no to French, English and German goods and services!

    I wouldn’t word shameful to these Tibetan in exile and your “Nobel Peace Prize” winner master, because you’re completely shameless. No wonder your master was educated by the Nazis, whom not only discriminated but exterminated anyone with disability. Dalai lies, Chinese suffers! Dalai lies, Chinese dies!

    Jinjing and the fellow Chinese Olympian, you’re our heroes!

  223. 225 Seven8nine April 13, 2008 at 4:46 am

    To JoeJoe: Hi, I have read all the comments so far on this page and it took a really long time. Anyway I think most of what you say is true and I fully agree with China protecting its land against violent riots, like any other country would. Im also very happy that China will have the olympic games and I hope China will take some gold medals. I also hope that I myself can visit China soon. What I want to say is that in your earlier posts you talked about rich, arrogant, wild western white people and it really sounded like all white people believe anything in the media and that all white people are the same. I am a “white” person and I hope you dont really think all white people are idiots that believe whatever our media feeds us. But “we” might be a little more brainwashed than we think I guess. It would be naive to believe that there is a good and a bad side to everything. Or that one “side” always tells the truth while the other always lies.

    Well, Im tires after all this reading! Goodnight! =)

  224. 226 Joejoe April 13, 2008 at 5:55 pm

    Let’s see who’s behind the recent Tibet incident:

  225. 227 Joejoe April 13, 2008 at 6:03 pm

    According to

    The Olympic Torch Relay Campaign2008/04/08

    LHASA/BERLIN(Own report) – Conference reports and the research of a Canadian journalist reveal that a German Foreign Ministry front organization is playing a decisive role in the preparations of the anti-Chinese Tibet campaign. According to this information, the campaign is being orchestrated from a Washington based headquarters. It had been assigned the task of organizing worldwide “protests” at a conference organized by the Friedrich Naumann Foundation (affiliated with the German Free Democratic Party – FDP) in May 2007. The plans were developed with the collaboration of the US State Department and the self-proclaimed Tibetan Government in Exile and call for high profile actions along the route of the Olympic Torch Relay and are supposed to reach a climax in August during the games in Beijing. The campaign began already last summer and is now profiting from the current uprising in the west of the People’s Republic of China that is receiving prominent coverage in the German media. The uprising was initiated with murderous pogrom-like attacks by Tibetan gangs on non-Tibetan members of the population, including the Muslim Chinese minority. Numerous deaths of non-Tibetans provoked a reaction of the Chinese security forces.
    According to the research by a Canadian journalist, a conference organized by the Friedrich Naumann Foundation (FNSt) gave the impetus to the current anti-Chinese Tibet campaign that violently forced the interruption of the Olympian Torch Relay in Paris last Monday.[1] The conference was the fifth “International Tibet Support Groups Conference,” that was held from May 11 – 14, 2007 in Brussels. According to FNSt information this conference was supposed to do nothing other than the four preceding conferences [2] – “coordinate the work of the international Tibet groups and consolidate the links between them with the central Tibetan Government in Exile.”[3] The German foundation, which is largely state financed, began the conference preparations in March 2005, and coordinated its plans with the Dalai Lama at his headquarters in the self-proclaimed Tibetan Government in Exile in Dharamsala, India. More than 300 participants from 56 countries, 36 Tibetan associations and 145 Tibet support groups were represented at the conference.
    After several days of consultations the conference ended with a concerted “plan of action”. The paper is entitled “Roadmap for the Tibet Movement for the Coming Years” covering four areas of interest: “political support for negotiations”, “human rights”, “environment and development” and “the 2008 Olympic games in Beijing.” The results of the conference are directed to the Tibetan people as well as “their supporters around the world.”[4] Rolf Berndt, a member of the FNSt’s executive council in Brussels, declared that the Olympic Games “are an excellent opportunity” to publicly promote the cause of the “Tibet Movement”.[5] The conference participants agreed to make the Olympics the single focus of attack for their activities for the next 15 months.[6] They hired a full-time organizer for their campaign, who has since been directing the worldwide Tibet actions from their Washington headquarters.
    State Department
    The decisions taken at the conference in Brussels, prepared by the Friedrich Naumann Foundation, are particularly significant not only because of the large number of participants but also because of the influential politicians who helped in their formulation. For example the self-proclaimed Tibetan Government in Exile, which enjoys much prestige among separatists, was represented by its “Prime Minister” Samdong Rinpoche. Also attending was another eminent politician from the Indian Himachal Pradesh state, bordering on the People’s Republic of China, where the town Dharamsala is located, the “seat” of the Tibetan “Government in Exile.” A brisk interchange takes place between Himachan Pradesh and the Chinese autonomous region of Tibet. Paula Dobriansky, the Undersecretary of State in the US State Department and special coordinator for Tibet questions also participated. She was a member of the National Security Council already in the Reagan Administration, continued her career in the State Department during the administration of President Bush Sr. and since 2001 was again in the US foreign ministry. Ms Drobriansky is considered to be one of the members of the neo-conservative inner circle in the Bush Administration and ranks as a hard-liner capable of imposing policy.
    Every Day
    As a Canadian journalist learned through his research, the campaign headquarters in Washington, that had been decided upon at the conference in Brussels, has been able to develop rather successful activities. Already at the beginning of August 2007, exactly one year before the opening of the Olympics, a close associate organized a high profile action at the tourist filled Great Wall to the north of Beijing. She maintains close contact to the Tibetan “Government in Exile”.[7] Another close associate recently orchestrated the disturbance of the Olympic Torch Relay in Greece, seen on television around the world. The Washington headquarters is orchestrating other “protests” intended to disturb the Torch Relay. The campaign will reach its climax during the Olympic games in August. “We are determined to have non-violent direct action in the heart of Beijing, inside the Games, every day,” one activist declared.[8]
    The anti-Chinese Tibet campaign, initiated under the direction of a German Foreign Ministry front organization (Friedrich Naumann Foundation) and a high-ranking representative of the US State Department, is developing its full efficacy in the aftermath of the uprisings in West People’s Republic of China that began only a few days before the start of the Torch Relay. Whereas the German media mainly reported on brutal attacks of the Chinese security forces, eye-witness accounts provide a different picture of what happened. The British journalist, James Miles (“The Economist”), who was in Lhasa from March 12 – 19, reports of pogrom-like attacks by Tibetan gangs on non-Tibetan members of the population of the city, among them the Muslim minority. According to Miles, the shops of Tibetan merchants were marked and left unscathed while all other shops were plundered, destroyed or set afire.[9] In one building alone five textile saleswomen were burned to death. Besides Miles, western tourists also described the attacks on non-Tibetans. One Canadian saw how a group of Tibetans beat a Chinese motorcyclist and proceeded to “mercilessly” stone him. “Eventually they got him on the ground, they were hitting him on the head with stones until he lost consciousness. I believe that young man was killed,” reported the tourist.[10]
    Whereas Miles was describing the reluctant reactions of the Chinese security forces in an interview broadcast over CNN, the German media is using the uprisings as a backdrop to represent brutal Chinese repression. Facts obviously play a subordinate role. In the meantime, television channels and daily journals have had to admit manipulations of pictures. Film sequences with Nepalese policemen beating demonstrators were sold as documentation of alleged Chinese police attacks.[11] The security forces’ saving a boy from an attacking Tibetan mob was coarsely labeled a violent arrest. Even Miles’ report was editorially presented in a context to focus on Chinese repression. For the purpose of comparison, documents excerpts of a CNN interview with the British journalist as well as the corresponding passage from a renowned German daily.[12] (Click here.)
    The pogrom-like mob-violence not only created the necessary media profile for the current Tibet campaign, initiated with the help of the Friedrich Naumann Foundation, it also permits an insight into the character of Tibetan separatism. The “prime minister” of the Tibetan “Exile Government,” who had participated in the formulation of the plan of action at the May 2007 Tibet Conference in Brussels, had already at the end of the 1990s, expounded in the German media on his views of the future of non-Tibetans, who had immigrated to Tibet over the past 50 years. In the case of a successful secession, they will have to “return to China, or if they would like to remain, be treated as foreigners.” He explained the planned measures: “they will, in any case, not be allowed to participate in the political life.”[13] The prospect of discrimination against all non-Tibetan members of the population was anticipated in mid-March by mobs in their bloody attacks on Chinese and members of the Muslim minority.
    Please read also Strategies of Attrition (I), Strategies of Attrition (II), Strategies of Attrition (III), Strategies of Attrition (IV) and The Olympic Lever.
    [1] Doug Saunders: How three Canadians upstaged Beijing; Globe and Mail 29.03.2008. Die Konferenz wurde von der Friedrich-Naumann-Stiftung in Zusammenarbeit mit der selbsternannten tibetischen Exilregierung und einem interfraktionellen Zusammenschluss des belgischen Parlaments durchgeführt.
    [2] Die ersten vier “International Tibet Support Groups Conferences” fanden 1990 (Dharamsala), 1996 (Bonn), 2000 (Berlin) und 2003 (Prag) statt. Bereits die zweite Konferenz wurde von der Friedrich-Naumann-Stiftung organisiert.
    [3] Gerhardt kritisiert Belgien nach Absage des Dalai-Lama-Besuchs; 11.05.2007
    [4] Brussels Tibet conference roadmap for peace in Tibet; 14.05.2007
    [5] Valedictory Speech, International Tibet Support Groups Conference 5th, Dr. h.c. Rolf Berndt, Executive Director, Friedrich-Naumann-Stiftung fuer die Freiheit,Brussels, 14th May 2007
    [6], [7}, [8] Doug Saunders: How three Canadians upstaged Beijing; Globe and Mail 29.03.2008
    [9] Transcript: James Miles interview on Tibet; CNN 20.03.2008
    [10] Chinese beaten mercilessly – tourists; Herald Sun 19.03.2008
    [11] Fotos aus Tibet; Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung 24.03.2008
    [12] see also Augenzeuge
    [13] “99 Prozent der Tibeter vertrauen in Seine Heiligkeit”; Berliner Zeitung 20.10.1997. Ähnlich hat sich erst kürzlich der Dalai Lama geäußert. “Alle Chinesen, die Tibetisch sprechen und die tibetische Kultur respektieren, können bleiben”, sagte er einer deutschen Zeitung – mit einer Einschränkung: “sofern es nicht zu viele sind”. “China mischt sich auch in Deutschlands Angelegenheiten ein”; Süddeutsche Zeitung 21.09.2007

  226. 228 justcome April 14, 2008 at 5:59 am

    The fact that many Chinese here are quite familiar about the western society, their history, their politics, and even the most recent news there, while most of the westerners know little about China or Tibet, except the easy “facts” that can be concluded in two sentences, already says a lot. Who is more likely to be paranoid, and who is more likely to be biased? It’s kinda ironic that Chinese people are using English to aruge with westerners about our China/Tibet issues, while most, if not all, those China bashers and Tibet freedom-fighters simply have never been to China/Tibet, and of course never bother to learn even a little of Chinese or Tibetan languages.

  227. 229 Sandy April 14, 2008 at 9:22 am

    Thank you, joejoe!

    Anyone who attempts to split China is against all the Chinese people. Any kind of such attempt is intolerable and is doomed to fail.

  228. 230 Anonymous April 15, 2008 at 5:12 am

    JoeJoe, I love you. 🙂

  229. 231 joel April 16, 2008 at 7:01 pm


    As a chinese, you are great and honorable.

  230. 233 Joejoe April 18, 2008 at 11:21 pm

    To those supporters of Free Tibet movement, if you’re drawn into this movement because you feel you really care about Tibet and Tibetan, please watch the following video patiently:

    It’s about 2 ordinary American couple’s journey to modern Tibet. All first hand material without any propaganda involvement.

    BTW, the video is divided into 6 sections.

    Then you’ll understand the angry of ordinary Chinese when they were confronted with the western media with completely biased view about our homeland.

  231. 234 Joejoe_I_salute_you April 19, 2008 at 1:02 pm

    Good work, Joejoe.

    It is amazing how some people are brainwashed by media and then accuse others as being brainwashed by Chinese government, why don’t they go to Tibet and see for themselves?

    Do not tell me they are all bunch of TV couch patatoes who never get out of their comfy sofa!

  232. 235 Joejoe April 21, 2008 at 6:39 pm

    I posted a comments about the institutional hirachy that is behind S*F*T (Student for a free Tibet) a while ago and yet this post is still awaiting moderation.

    Just watch the following video:

    C*I*A – > N*E*D – > I*C*T – > S*F*T

    For those work for S F T as volenteer, you’re essentially working for C*I*A!

  233. 236 Ben April 24, 2008 at 9:01 pm

    “What do you want from Us? – A Poem Dedicated to the last 150 years of this planet. By a Slient, Silent Chinese.”


    We have read several Chinese versions of this poem, however, could you kindly copy the French version to me for our French friends in Canada.

    Thank you in advance for your assistance,


  234. 237 Kaye April 26, 2008 at 9:47 pm

    These photos do not prove that Chinese soldiers were responsible. All of the photos and videos of the Tibetan riots can be presented in two different ways, depending on context and commentary. I’ve seen photos of “Chinese soldiers” attacking “innocent monks” that are clearly not Chinese police but Nepalese. Our press, and websites such as this, are painting a certain picture of Tibet and the Chinese. You should know however, that photos are constantly used out of context, and with captions that misrepresent the true situation.

    Most westerners, and apparently most people posting here, have no idea of the history of China & Tibet, what Tibet represents for the Chinese people, and what life in Tibet was like under the regime before the communists liberated Tibet. I use the word advisedly.

    The western media seem prepared to accept that we “liberated” Iraq… but not that the Chinese communist party liberated an enslaved, illiterate and starving Tibetan populace from the stranglehold of the ruling landlords of the time, and their allies, the Nationalist Party who later took Taiwan. The Chinese people may not have elected their government, but they are proud of the progress that has been made since the 1949 revolution. They recognize that their government is not perfect, prone to corruption, often unjust etc but it is their government, and the vast majority recognize the dramatic improvement in living standards, women’s rights, education etc. Even those who suffered under the cultural revolution will now defend their government against attack by largely ignorant westerners taking the moral high-ground, not because they are brainwashed or stupid… but because for all it’s faults they love their country, and they trust their government to move slowly but surely in the right direction. The next thing they want is not democracy or a free press: they want social security and healthcare.

    What does “Free Tibet” actually mean? A return to Tibet under the control of the 1959 rulers would be the equivalent in France of a return to pre-french-revolution days. And before you talk about the “cultural genocide” in Tibet… first read up on the history. While you’re at it, check out the history of the other Chinese “minorities”, and the relationship between them and Han Chinese. Contrary to most western countries, China has NEVER tried to colonize further afield than the borders that 2000 years of history books loosely refer to as China – for many years China was composed of different regions with different cultures and languages. In the west we cannot even begin to understand how the Chinese view their country’s borders, and what most Tibetans or the Taiwanese view as “China”.

    Do not believe all the anti-Chinese propaganda you are bombarded with in the US and Europe any more than you’d believe the Chinese press. Examine carefully both sides of an argument – if you write off one side of an argument as propaganda, chances are that both sides are in fact playing the same game, no? Take a look at US/European actions in the Middle East, Northern Ireland, Vietnam, The Basque country, Corsica, Afghanistan etc before criticising China’s actions in Tibet.

    The western press is as selective in the articles and photos it chooses to show as the Chinese media, and uses a vocabulary specially chosen to influence public opinion. Where are the images and video of Monks (or at least, people in Monk outfits) destroying property? Where are the photos of the (unarmed!) Chinese police behind fibreglass screens with bloodied faces after being attacked with bricks and Molotov cocktails? Where are the interviews with renown Monastery leaders refuting claims that Monks were behind the violence? Where are the ordinary Tibetans who refute the claims of the separatists? Where are the statistics on what the Chinese have brought to Tibet since 1959 in education, healthcare, living standards, corruption, etc? You cannot simply take the view that any information that goes against your beliefs in “how things are” MUST be propaganda, false information, staged interviews… The western press would have us believe that the Chinese regime is an inhuman, brutal and corrupt dictatorship that imprisons anyone for anything, and executes people without trial. A bit like the old idea that Russians (and all communist regimes) were dangerous monsters who wanted to rule the world or blow it up. Would you be surprised to learn that most top Chinese politicians are popular family men, with wives, children and grandchildren, eager to serve their country and do the right thing for the Chinese people? We may disagree with how these leaders got into power, but it is ridiculous to imagine that they are all evil monsters.

    All we hear about China in the western media is SARS, poisonous paint, dangerous toys, cheap and nasty manufactured goods, human rights problems, state-run media, inscrutable faces that all look the same, dirty poultry markets, massive pollution, the “invasion” of Tibet… Have you ever thought that WE might be the one’s being brainwashed? The goal is to instill fear of China and the Chinese, a bit like the phrase “A black man…” that Michael Moore’s comments on in the US media news reports.

    I’d like to know how many civilian deaths and tortured political prisoners can be blamed on the western “liberation” of Iraq, compared with the Chinese “liberation” of Tibet. One man’s “invasion” is another man’s “liberation”, so try and see both sides of the issue before jumping on the China bashing bandwagon.

    Although in the past any religious practice was outlawed and harshly repressed, the Chinese are now free to practice any religion they choose – they are even whole Muslim neighbourhoods in small towns in the middle of China… so religious tolerance in China is not what you have been led to believe.

    As for “Free Tibet”, did you know that the British invaded Tibet about a century ago, and that the reason the Dalai Lama has such huge international backing is because he was supported and funded by the CIA and the British when it looked like Russia would get their hands on Tibet? The British wanted Tibet to be annexed rather to India, a British colony… The Dalai Lama is a superstar in the west, he is above all suspicion, because he is the West’s only hope to create a friendly regime in yet another strategically important place.

    If you think that the Dalai Lama has the only legitimate right to rule Tibet, read the History of Tibet – the wikipedia article does a pretty neutral job, for once, of explaining the current situation. Just read the facts – Tibet has been more or less under Chinese control since the mongol Yuan dynasty (genghis and kublai khan) first unified China in the 13th century. Read the facts, especially near the end about the “British Invasion” and later, and you may start to understand why westerners are at least, if not more, brainwashed by misleading media reports, than the Chinese:

  235. 238 Emily May 6, 2008 at 8:32 am

    I have no idea who ‘neo’ of 18th march is or where he comes from, but honestly do you have no heart? This is happening, to people, like you and me, not in a movie that youve seen from hollywood, but actual….and yet you respond in a manner that they ‘deserve it’….. I was shocked to read such a response! You also responded to where they would be put if from in the U.S, honestly…whys the camp not in your own country???? maybe because you know its not right, or is it because in cuba you have no one to answer to??????
    where do you get off, these are real people and no one has the right to be attacked in this manner!
    we’ll look back at this in history and think ‘how could we have let this happen!!!’

  236. 239 Anonymous 2 May 20, 2008 at 8:30 am

    1. Sure the Tibetan governing structure wasn’t ideal before the Chinese occupation (there is no such thing in existence), BUT it was, by all technical requirements, a sovreign state.

    2. No country has the authority, in international law, to invade/occupy another just because they don’t agree with the way the country runs itself (sound familiar?)
    Thus, the Chinese occupation had NOTHING to to with “liberation,” just as the U.S. invaded Iraq had nothing to do with the same rediculous claim.

    3. It is fact that the Chinese occupying military have targetted Buddhist nuns and sexually abused them in prison, detaining them for “alleged” crimes, many of which have never seen trial nor have had actual charges brought against them; then have had extended sentences for singing liberation songs.

    4. I do not condone violence in any form, however, I shall ask you…if it was your country, your city, your mothers, fathers and brothers being slain, would you not feel compelled to react violently.

    A human being can only endure so much. Once again, I am not condoning any form of violence, I am merely saying that, living in the U.S. we MUST, though we physically cannot, try to understand the plight of people who live in such dispair and not argue over who is right or wrong, instead focus on the tragic fact that people are able to cause so much damage and are forced to feel so much pain.

    I suppose we will never be able to understand until anarchy breaks loose here. For, we do not live in a war zone, nor anything of the like, thus we CANNOT understand the plight of these people…..HENCE WE SHOULD CAST NO, I REPEAT, NO, JUDGMENT!!!

  237. 240 where does it end?? June 12, 2008 at 6:55 am

    what could you possibly gain from this or any violence?? where does humanities anger come from? remember to think of the other sides opposition. if you can’t then your deceived by hatred. if you tell me Tibet deserves this then why?? if you tell me China is justified then why??

  238. 241 dome sherpa July 18, 2008 at 5:42 pm

    this very bad to know that what is going on in tibet.but in this type of bad sitution we dont have to lose our dharma. one day every body die but how you die this is very important. this people who die for free tibet we never forget their secrifiy . iam praying for them .
    om mane pame hum
    dome sherpa
    kathmandu nepal

  239. 242 lyric July 22, 2008 at 8:30 pm

    Hmm they probly think its more like 10, when will all the violence stop?

  240. 243 Martin Mellish August 31, 2008 at 9:50 pm

    A previous poster asked why, if the Tibetan rioters were so violent, there are no photos of casualties among the Chinese army and police. The answer is that, being cowardly and vicious, the rioters did not attack the army or the police, but poor and inoffensive Chinese (and Muslim) shopkeeepers.

    There is a LOT of photographic and video evidence of the attacks on them by the Tibetan rioters (not ‘protesters’, as I am sure you will agree once you have seen the footage). These attacks were vicious,racist, and obscene, and many monks participated in them. To look at some of this footage, do a youTube search on ‘Lhasa riots’, or go to .

    You had better have a strong stomach: ‘highlights’ include an interview with a Tibetan shop assistant whose five Chinese co-workers were all burned to death, and a Tibetan mob dragging an elderly Chinese man off his moped and attempting to kill him by stoning.

    I don’t believe anyone who had seen the video can advocate for Tibetan independence or ‘autonomy’ with a straight face. The people in the videos are clearly sadistic racists and someone needs to keep them under control: it might as well be the Chinese (who, judging from my own month-long visit to Tibet, are actually not doing that bad a job of running the place.)

    The actual underlying issue is a clash between a very primitive culture and the modern world. Sooner or later someone was going to bring the modern world to Tibet: as it happened, it was the Chinese. There will doubtless be a lot of friction as Tibet adapts to the twenty-first century: from yak-herding to cell phone towers, but that friction would arise no matter who was running the country.

  241. 244 SMS Alerts October 3, 2008 at 6:48 pm

    Absolutley horrifying. Although not being near the action, i despice the Chinese government and have nothing but sympathy for the Tibetans.

  242. 245 business blog October 10, 2008 at 3:21 pm

    shocking photos! we all know that cenzors falsify news, so, we can only imagine the real extent of violance. when will all this end finally?

  243. 246 Domain October 12, 2008 at 5:02 am

    Oh my GOD? how can this happening? why not we live in peace, peace for everyone in the world, so no more victim from the violence

  244. 247 Golfmitgliedschaft October 12, 2008 at 6:40 am

    As horrible as this is I still find it hard to call China anything in light of whats happening in Iraq. We’ve killed over 1 million innocent civilians there in the name of democracy. Can we really point fingers about human rights violations?

  245. 248 cheritycall October 27, 2008 at 9:51 am

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  246. 249 Ebooks Store November 10, 2008 at 5:40 pm

    Tibetan exils are jealous about other Tibetans lives a better live inside Tibet.

  247. 250 Anonymous November 20, 2008 at 1:41 pm

    Despite how well written that poem was JoeJoe, and inspiring, its still wrong how you deny the fact that you are mutilating Tibetans, and destroying their culture more and more everyday, solemnly because its in your goverments best interest.

  248. 251 David Gortler December 30, 2008 at 6:25 am

    Bad! Why didn’t people learn that the violence can’t resolve the “battle”?

  249. 252 dafengluobote May 3, 2009 at 7:34 am

    Well I am Chinese and I am shocked now.Since China controls the media,people are blind to the truth.

  250. 253 Supply Chain August 8, 2009 at 7:27 pm

    Those images are horrible it just shows how horrid some people are to do that to others. Its just wrong

  251. 254 mitrum October 9, 2009 at 6:01 am

    china is worldwide danger. when other countries will stop sporting chinees product. There money is utilized in these type of act.

  252. 255 car accident lawyer jacksonville October 17, 2009 at 9:36 pm

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  253. 256 Fudo shin Ryu April 18, 2010 at 8:30 pm

    Tibet well

    First it might pay for a few people to read Sky burial by Xinran
    this book gives one a great insight into long and deep feeling of
    desperate people.

    War in all its forms is real sad and so is this one my father having been affected by the killing of people during the war was always calm in his thoughts that he was fighting a regime of NAZIs.

    This war is nothing compared to what will happen to the region/planet if Iran gets the nuclear weapon ability it is only months away from completing.

    So if anyone wants to talk politics I would suggest the politics of he Silk road that has been going on for excess of 5000/+ years suggests that the best way save Tibet would be to give them the power they need.
    They have all the information and they know whats coming.


  254. 257 Anonymous April 27, 2010 at 5:35 pm

    never get in a fight and blow your fucking head off

  255. 258 Iqbal ahmed May 14, 2010 at 5:16 pm

    China is a good country. People are happy here comparing to democratic countries. Facilities are avaiable better than other developing counties.

    There are violance everywhere in the world.

  256. 259 June 15, 2010 at 6:39 pm

    realy good information

  257. 260 Free Tibetans October 17, 2010 at 10:27 pm

    I agree with the article here EXCEPT that the victims in the pictures DOESN’T seem to look like TIBETANS!

    So my friends, next time if you want to gain people’s sympathy using gruesome images, always remember to AT LEAST get the “bloody pictures” RIGHT!

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  1. 1 » Photos provide the real picture of violence in Tibet. Trackback on March 18, 2008 at 11:15 pm
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