Since the protests began, the Chinese government has consistently denied the high death tolls in Tibet. Exile groups claim as many as 100 people have died, many of them shot. The Chinese government claims only 16 have died, and they have denied shooting anyone.
Claims from both sides are difficult to verify because reporters have been expelled from the area.
http://www.abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=4468783&page=1
But the real picture is just beginning to emerge. These photos clearly show people have been shot and killed.
When are people going to learn that guns and bombs are not the fucking answer? I’m boycotting the Olympics in Beijing. Too bad for the Chinese people as well. I’m sure their hearts are with the Tibetans…
Horrible. The lies of the Chinese government need to be exposed, and the West needs to step up the pressure. Don’t sweep this under the rug.
get your facts right people… majority of the death in tibet are caused by the tibetian mob killing the ethnic chinese. The army has killed a few people, but only when they were fired or set upon. Why don’t anyone read the news instead of glancing it.
Tony, if the Chinese told you that they landed on the moon first, I guess you would believe them too.
Why would any government censure or block foreign news media DURING a raid? Obviously, to do anything they want, then report anything they want through their controlled propoganda machine.
Even in the US, the news really isn’t the news but more-or-less entertainment.
The Chinese propoganda machine wants you to believe that ethnic Chinese are dying, which may be true, but will they report the numbers of ethnic Tibetans dead? Probably not. Will they report the forced relocation of lowland Chinese to Tibet? No. They will claim that these Chinese businesses are making life better for Tibet. But better for who? The Tibetan society wasn’t based on dollars, but the Chinese business have forced capitalism into this region, creating economic strife.
Read all sides of the news, from different countries before opening your mouth.
Amen. Tony… STFU!
Tony is right.
Theyrrree Grrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeat!
never be part of a riot!
Tony is a moron. I bet he believes bush too.
The only way this will stop is if the developed world stop dealing with them.. Probably is that is never going to fucking happen.
I do feel reel sorry for all of the people in Tibet. not at all sorry for any of the Chinese. They actually have a big enough population to over throw their government. They just don’t realise it.
Yes, the Chinese media is obviously lying. Don’t believe anything they say. The Tibetan Center for Human Rights and Democracy is of course completely unbiased and would NEVER lie to us. Jesus, sometimes people are idiots. Both sides are obviously equally capable of distorting the truth and publishing false numbers. However, the hard fact is that the unrest was started by groups of Tibetans and that their protest was NOT peaceful. Was/is the Chinese government being overly harsh in trying to stop the riots? Maybe. But get it through your head that this isn’t a simple case of evil Communists violently suppressing innocent Tibetans for no reason.
These pictures, as horrific as they are, does not support any of the things the comments are saying nor what you what them to imply.
1. It does not confirm any body count, as the people in some pictures can not be identified, and there is, regardless, less than 16 bodies.
2. The ethnic identity of the people pictured are not clear, so it could support both the Tibetan (that the Chinese killed many Tibetans) or the Chinese claims (that ethnic Hui and Han were the victims).
3. There is nothing to indicate the time or place these were taken.
If I wanted to be logically strict about it, it doesn’t even prove that people have been “shot and killed”.
Horrific stuff, but evidence of little.
“Horrible. The lies of the Chinese government need to be exposed, and the West needs to step up the pressure. Don’t sweep this under the rug.”
This crap is not secret to anyone but the naive. China doesn’t give a crap. What will be done? Same that has been done to protect the many innocents who are slaughtered in Aftrica every year. Nothing.
Just to comment here that Tony does have a point, the news hasn’t explicitly stated that the Chinese are killing rioting Tibetans and/or peaceful protesters. It’s implied but not directly stated, so until someone either gets enough information or the balls to confirm who shot who I’m holding my opinion.
This type of violence anywhere is horrible. And you know real bad stuff is happening when all the reporters get kicked out.
Only dumbass Americans believe bush.
Although these deaths/injuries are unfortunate and probably could have been prevented, nothing lessen the crimes that the Tibetans have committed. They burned ethnic Chinese shops, cars, looted shops, police stations etc. These are hate crimes toward the Chinese people, and cannot be tolerated. If the Tibetans want anarchy, then the Chinese government should let them taste their own medicine.
If this were to happen in the US, those people would be in Guantanamo bay.
Meh. People riot, then they die. Evidently they need to work on organization and armed insurrection if they don’t want to get mudstomped by the PLA. Honestly, I don’t care if the Chinese want to exterminate the Tibetans any more than I care if the Israelis steamroll the Palestinians. Just as long as we don’t send some kids from Arkansas and Michigan to go play “World Police” again. We fought for our independence, they can do it too.
And I love bob job’s clueless comment. Big enough population to overthrow their government? Why the fuck would they overthrow a government that has drastically improved their standard of living over the last three decades? Us Americans hysterically point to human right abuses and lack of democracy as proof that the Chinese government is evil and incompetent. But for an average Chinese person, what good is democracy if it means going through economic disaster like the Russians like after the fall of the USSR? Governments will fall if/once it fails to improve the lives of its people. This is true of democracies and authoritarian governments alike.
I bet good ol’ America has something to do with this tragedy.
i hope more people boycott the olympics
more girls for me
I’m glad the French forces (that we would not have won the revolution without) didn’t feel the way Ryan does. People in other countries are just as important and worthy of life as we are.
As china said, the west don’t really have any place to comment on Tibet. Fairly hypocritical if they do, allowing the illegal war and all that..
Torture goes on everywhere, innocent people get killed all the time.
No-one stood up to Burma when monks were being killed and trucked off, why would Tibet be any different?
Our politicians don’t have any balls.
Well America handed China there economy on a silver platter.
Now America gives them immunity because they hold there economy in there hands. The Bush’s and the Clinton’s and other notable Builderberger’s like Cheney have said, China is a great example of how to run a country. So get used to it people, this is how the NWO shall be, China is a test case for us all. How could the west be so blinded, especially after WWII and the atrocities of Adolf Hitler. History is repeating itself, here we go again.
this is a response to “ben”
you said:
“Yes, the Chinese media is obviously lying. Don’t believe anything they say. ”
Yep. I agree.
“The Tibetan Center for Human Rights and Democracy is of course completely unbiased and would NEVER lie to us. ”
Yep. I agree!
“Jesus, sometimes people are idiots.”
Yep. I agree. Except sometimes, they are not.
“Both sides are obviously equally capable of distorting the truth and publishing false numbers. ”
Yep. I agree. Everyone has the capability of lying. Except, that the Tibetans DON’T lie and the other side does.
“However, the hard fact is that the unrest was started by groups of Tibetans and that their protest was NOT peaceful. Was/is the Chinese government being overly harsh in trying to stop the riots? Maybe. But get it through your head that this isn’t a simple case of evil Communists violently suppressing innocent Tibetans for no reason.”
Actually, it is.
The hard fact is the Chinese have no business being in these people’s country. And I have got it through my head that the Tibetan people are being murdered, raped, systematically moved out, families destroyed, thousands of Chinese forcibly moved to their country just to REPLACE them. It is actually, just exactly the Chinese Governement are being evil and violently suppressing Tibetans, and there is no reason good enough to be doing that to these people. End of story. You guys need to stop doing this. Now.
Ah shit, you’re right, the world IS completely black and white, how could I have forgotten? The Tibetans DONT’T lie and the Chinese ARE pure evil. It’s like Star Wars! One’s a Jedi and one’s Emperor Palpatine. Light and Dark, good guy and bad guy, all are clearly defined with no moral ambiguity whatsoever. Thank you, sir, for curing me of my foolishness.
I am not saying Chinese government is not lying but why should one trust what Dalai Lama said. When Chinese government reported there were 10 people dead, Dalai’s representative in New York told BBC reporter: “It is very hard to find out actually how many people died, but we think it is logical to assume at least 30 people have died.” Then the whole world quoted more than 30 people’s dead.
i just returned from dharamsala and know first hand the open and giving nature of the tibetan people. i have spent time with people who walked from tibet through nepal and on to india to get out of the situation around Lhasa.
the question i find myself asking is…do i feel strongly enough about the tibetan people to give up my chinese manufactured goods? Do you?
I believe the pictures, and I’m sure people have been innocently killed on both sides, as tends to happen in these situations. But I think before people are quick to jump in fury at China and call for boycotting the Olympics, they should consider this:
1) Has your government told its people about all the things it’s “CIA” or “FBI”-equivalents have done in the past?
2) Your government may appear and sound more democratic and “western” than the Chinese Communist Party, but would it put up with separatists? You can call for policy change as much as you like, and that’s all ok, but don’t bring separatism into the equation. Does Russia put up with Chechen separatists? And maybe you think Russia also has a “communist” history. So what about the USA? Why did the Civil War happen? Why didn’t the North just let the South secede? The Confederate States took up nearly half the USA around 1861, and Tibet doesn’t take up half of China today. If you want to talk about ethnicity, then what about the Native Americans? Did the first “immigrants” to the USA not treat them more horribly than China has treated Tibet? But of course they don’t see it that way. They think they brought “modernization, education, and change” to the Native Americans. Any of this sound familiar?
3) Finally, people may say those things happened a long time ago. Paradigms have changed and the definition of human rights are no longer what they used to be. Ok. There’s some truth in that. So what about Iraq? That’s recent enough. Iraq has never been a USA territory, for as far back as I can remember. So no one calls for a boycott of Olympics in the USA when they just go and invade and take over another country. We enforce our policies on them. We don’t care if they welcome us. Sure they’ve killed many of our soldiers, but we’ve also killed just as many of them. But that’s all ok right? That’s all ok so long as we still call ourselves “democratic” instead of “communist,” so long as we kill in the name of “justice” and not for “restoring order.”
I’m not trying to argue that what is happening in Tibet is right. I’m not saying the Chinese government has not made wrong decisions. But once again, I would look at my own country and own government’s actions first before I’m quick to judge others. And at the root of all of this, no country’s government, no matter how much it tries to appear “democratic,” and no matter how long of a history it has, can tolerate or ignore the idea of separation from within.
Also, the topic of how justified the Chinese are in their occupation of Tibet is not all that relevant. The issue at hand is if the riots occurring in Tibet were started by Tibetans, if they were targeted at Han Chinese, and if the Chinese government had a right to respond to the riots. The answer to all three questions, I think, is yes. Whether they responded appropriately is a different question.
When are people going to learn there is no such thing as “The answer”
tony_dont_know said “Tony, if the Chinese told you that they landed on the moon first, I guess you would believe them too.”
Yet you’d blindly believe the western media? Don’t be naive. This isn’t black and white. The naive western belief that Tibet is filled with peace loving Buddhist monks, calmly praying 24 hours per day, kneeling in prayer in opposition to the Evil Violent Chinese, just shows how easily you have been fooled by your own propaganda.
The reality is that prior to the Chinese invasion the average life expectancy in Tibet was 36 years, 95% of Tibetans were born into slavery to the lamas (monks), and 95% of Tibetans were illiterate. No public schools, no clean water, no hospitals, most Tibetans living in extreme poverty, and a select few Buddhist monks living in luxury. That’s what Tibet was like before the Chinese Annex.
The Chinese have done some awful things, there is no denying that, but they’ve also brought literacy and health to Tibet. China pours vast amounts of money into Tibet to build infrastructure like roads and schools and hospitals. There is no slavery and no taxes for the Tibetans. The Tibetans are treated better than the Han Chinese!
I would have no qualms with “Free Tibet” if it meant introduction of democracy and wealth and safety. But that’s not what would happen. Tibet has no wealth, and they are bordered on all sides by nations that have (and will) invade them. Their infrastructure would collapse, Tibet would descend into theocratic fuedalism, and the abject poverty that plagued Tibet for 100s of years would return.
NB: I am not Chinese or Tibetan. I’m just informed, unlike 99% of people who cry “Free Tibet” or “Boycott China”.
For starters, you’re all pretty retarded. First off, this is something happening in Tibet and China and seeing as how the U.S loves to stick their noses into everyone else’s business, it’s no surprise you retards care so much. Second, the U.S is in one helluva recession right now, so how about you stop worrying about China and Tibet, and realize there’s not a damn thing you can do about it. Bitch all you want, you won’t make a difference. The fact is that Tibet is under Chinese oppression, DUH, but the Chinese government does not need to be overthrown as some of you retarded radicals have stated earlier. The Chinese economy is growing at 11% each year, the U.S has slowed to about 2.3%. That means China > U.S. So keep up the China hate and boycotting the Olympics, I got new for you, IT WON’T MAKE A DIFFERENCE!!!!
dated PSes. last time i saw some of these pictures, it was on a Falunkung website accusing Chinese government of abusing their followers. and now they became Tibetans?
it is easy to jump onto bandwagons without studying the historical background of this issue. but I think it takes more than knowledge and education to form an educated opinion. Because what you see or hear on the media is not always true or accurate, given if you still trust the media. yes, the media that only showed you the footages of american troops marching on Iragi soil, welcomed by Iraqi people, but didn’t show you the bombings, killings, and rapings. and did i mention that the u.s. government banned ALL international journalists except few selected american journalists reporting the invasion.
tony_don’t_know: where do you get ur information? from the american government. You think they won’t lie about their standpoint just to make others believe. if u say china lies then so does ur government
And how can you tell who is Chinese and who is Tibetan on those pictures?
its funny how quick people jump to conclusions with their own assumptions. nobody actually has an idea about how many death there are and who was mainly responsible for the death. as has been correctly said, the dalai lama has no way to know how many deaths there are, yet everybody believe him out of sympathy.
now think about it: USA and its pro-israel policy? who cried for a free palestine? who cried for the dead arabs? sure palestine people resort to violence and terrorism, but is tibetans in this context any better?
the way i see it: tibetans have lost their image as a oppressed, but still peaceful ethnic. in fact, its just the monk caste doing all the riots. its just the monk who has anything to gain from gaining independence. the common tibetan wont gain anything.
Money talks, bullshit walks. Human rights, fuck it. It’s a term introduced by CIA. Even the sacret DaLai Lama was on CIA payroll until 1972. If you want to boycott Olympic, just go ahead! You’re not welcomed anyway! If you want mess with us Chinese, watch out your nuts and your wallet.
I wonder why there is no exile Tibetan demonstration in African, South America, Mid East, East Europe… while there are Chinese consulate all over the world. It turn out they too want a better life. Just that the only means to support themselves is to live like a echoing parasite of rich white people!
Is the world only consists of West Europe and North America? certainly not! Is the Olympic only for the rich white people? certainly not! If you don’t agree, fuck yourself and your puppy Tibetan exile!
Chinese media is obviously lying
Daniel, Thanks for the voice of reason. As a Taiwanese and recently returned from Tibet (not just Lahsa, but in and out on land), it will be in my best “ethnic” interest to watch China burn, but the truth is that anyone whose country has a military presence in a foreign land should stay quiet, unless you are plotting a revolution (but then, you should probably then stay EXTRA quiet..)
I can see how we are looking to take a moral high ground when ever we can since Taiwan is small and 150km is not a great distance to keep someone away, but if you guys are shitting bricks, I am starting to be worried…
However told those unfortunate souls that China won’t shoot because the Olympics, they should be shot!
I think the first problem is that any of you actually put complete belief in anything you see on broadcast news. Modern journalism is nothing but sensationalism for the sake of ratings. I don’t doubt that horrible things are going on, but let’s not be naive here. The only people that truly know what is going on are the people that are living it! The rest of you are only getting the story the networks want us to hear and see.
And come on, arguing on a blog? It’s like running a race in the special olympics, even if you win, you’re still retarded.
I don’t understand this, people want us to get out of Iraq - and then get involved in Tibet? The American public doesn’t even know what they want. And these protests by the tibetan people are not the non-violent approach that the Dalai Lama even endorses, they need to understand that you can fire with fire when you are fighting with a furnace, the situation will just get hotter.
I think the “West” needs to worry about the “West”, and the Tibetans need to take a different approach, one that is synonymous with time and not short violent tactics, it’s only going to make the boot bigger and heavier for themselves.
Who is Chinese and who is Tibetan on those pictures?
From New York times’ interview with the Dalai Lama:
Dalai Lama said he wants more autonomy as oppose to separation for Tibet. Tibet wants to be its own country? Uhnn?
Dalai Lama said he would step down as the head of the Tibetan exiled government if his people in Tibet doesn’t calm down and conduct peaceful demonstrations. Chinese government just killing peaceful demonstrators? Uhnn?
I don’t understand how can people care so much about things like this happening in another country, while their own country is doing the same thing?
I have spent almost a month in Tibet. The Chinese invaded the country 50 years ago and have suppressed, tortured and killed the Tibetans ever since the invasion. The Tibetans had developed a unique culture sitting on the roof of the world. For over 1000 years they studied Mind in their monasteries and came to an understanding of our place in the world that has (and perhaps) never will be surpassed. The Chinese have been involved in destroying the culture since the invasion. To them the Tibetans represent a culture in direct opposition to their cultural revolution. And Tibet is the headwaters of most all the major rivers of Asia which supplies water to 1/3 of the Earth’s population (1/2 of Asia). The Chinese are trying to completely destroy the Tibetan culture so that they have free access to the minerals and water resources of the country. This is genocide.
On the first day in Lhasa we were approached by Tibetan students in the marketplace who told us directly and without hesitation about the crimes of the Chinese. Then when biking through the country we heard the same thing over and over. The people love the Dalai Lama and it is a crime to even own a picture of him. The Dalai Lama has been the spiritual leader of the people for nearly 700 years and the Chinese demonize him in attempt to break the culture of the people.
The world needs to see the crimes of the Chinese and speak out for the Tibetans. If we do not the entire world will lose a great tradition of wisdom and knowledge. http://www.changing-history.com
Whenever you suppress people hard enough and they eventually speak out they will address their anger toward those who represent the oppressors. A sorry fact but it appears that some of the Tibetans
@Daniel
You’re forgetting something: Tibet was annexed against their will. The Confederate states tried to break off of the union they were apart of. There’s a difference. If you want a closer analogy, take the Lakota Indians who have decided to break off the treaty with the United States and become their own country: http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iVC1KMTOgwiSoMQyT2LwZc9HyAgA
Also, the people who originally came over here weren’t American’s. They were English, Spanish, French, Portugese, etc, etc. The Native Americans were though to be less than human, but we now know that’s not the case.
As for us going into countries like Iraq, we’re not conquering those countries. you say that we’re not there to restore order, do you really think order would return if we left? Chaos would ensue and they may end up with a government far worse than Hussein. People say we should have never gone in there, but in the same breathe complain that we should be going into Darfur for the EXACT SAME REASONS. The differences here are that before the U.S. went into Iraq, the country was horrible save for people tied with Hussein and the Oil for Food fraud, whereas Tibet was perfectly happy until China imposed themselves on it’s people.
Taiwanese, don’t forget your ancesters are Han Chinese. If it’s your personal interest to watch China burnt. I suggest you start with yourself with anything with trace to China. Burn the properties inherit from your ancesters, your family tree, your properties, your passport(It’s labeled Republic of China), your cash (There is a picture of famous Chinese president). In the end, don’t forget to set yourself on fire too!
I deplore the ecent that is happening in Tibet. We must liberate those poor $#@* like what we did in Iraq and what we will do in Iran. We must install the righfull owner who has a master plan to bring the level of teh country to greater heights (have you seen the master plan Tibetian Yuan goes to an exchange of USD 1 to Yuan 3). Fantastic, flot the Tibetian currency, open their import wallet, they can pay with mules and donkeys. Why suffer under the rich chinese junk food full of grease. Eat US McDonald and Kentucky that the way to go. I will send by by CIA Director to Tibet soon to see what weapons may be needed there to complete teh liberation
It’s nice to see people having more complex understandings of the China-Tibet situation. I’d also suggest people give the wikipedia entry on Tibet a quick read to see what the history is between Tibet and the rest of China, because it’s very complicated and political. Basically it comes down to (I believe) that leaders of Tibet had long recognized China’s emperors/leaders as their own as well, but cooperated with relative peacefulness because China gave Tibet a high degree of autonomy, and previous Dalai Lama’s had moral as well as political authority.
The problem came with Mao Zedong, the PLA and Communism in 1959. They “liberated” Tibet and at first Tibetan leaders went along with it. But then for various reasons the Party decided land reform needed to be carried out in Tibet as well, and then things went all to the crapper. So this is what I don’t understand now, why the Chinese government won’t try to work with the current Dalai Lama to provide greater autonomy for Tibet without giving them outright independence, something for which there isn’t much historical precedent and for which there would be little economic benefit. Give them the political and cultural freedom they seek, and they’ll be plenty happy to stay a part of China, China will suddenly look much better in the eyes of the world, and pretty much everyone wins.
i agree that guns and bombs are pointless Chaim, but unless you are an athlete or world leader…i don’t think they will care if you boycott the Olympics haha
Aren’t we all so easily led by propaganda. The only question whose servant do you wish to be? The term “Free Tibet” is ludicrous since Tibetan pheasants living under the Lamas were not enjoying a free society but held under serfdom in a theocracy. We haven’t seen such a situation in western society since the 16th Century. If you will be so kind as to notice, it’s the clerics, not the peasantry who are rioting. they wish their property restored, namely the poor whom they would own along with the land under Tibet’s former feudal system. Life under a socialist dictator isn’t perfect, but I’d prefer it to living in villainy as the property of the nobility, even if they wear saffron robes. Please think these things through before shouting “Free Tibet!” Always ask yourself, who is likely to be behind this when examining a viewpoint to espouse. Just because an idea sounds green, and liberal, and spiritual, it isn’t necessarily.
you know the “talk to westeners about the crimes of the chinese government” approach was also used by falungong. in the end falungong turned out to be a cult not any better than scientology.
just because a monk (!) talked to you doesnt mean everybody in tibet thinks the same way. hell, monks might be brainwashed by his religious perspective as well. i doubt that a non-monk tibetan wants a theocracy.
I reckon yall know nothing at all. Trust me, im american and i know best. Fact: Chinese government are no good stinking communist liars. Hell I’ve met the dali lama myself and thats what he says. I have to say that based on my impervious logic and ungrounded beliefs, that tibetian are always non biased samaritans and present that facts as is just like fox news and that god blessed o’reily (god bless that good man’s soul). I mean after all the solution to this would be for america to dispatch team america into the heart of china, a place known as Taiwan where their centeral government resides. After all we did just agreed to hand over some billions of dollars to the defense department, im sure they can find another place to spend it on. DOWN WITH THE COMMIE!!! FREE TIBET!!! AMERICAN #1
–sincerely
Colonel Sanders
I’m also glad that certain posters here have some type of special clairvoyance that allows them to tell what nationality or race other posters are. I just wish i was birthed with such a gift. Tibet protests, China intercedes with force, some people dislike the handling of the situation, pro-china users decry such notions and start pointing the finger at the west.
seems logical to me……..
Tony my son lick my blk ass and then only you’ll understand the truth….otherwise you are blind and you don’t know china killed thousand of chinese students in 90s’Now in 2008 They start the same by means of Tanks and Bullets….
Your Dad
Osama
If Tibet mob was so violent. Why aren’t there any pictures of dead Chinese soldiers or police ?
The dead bodies speak for themselves. Anyone questioning that China would escalate to brute force … see Tienanmen Square.
That was just a few years ago in the big scheme of things. Obviously China has a very strong desire to hold a grip on Tibet.
If they revolt the communist leaders might fear their success to be contagious. Plus they know the west is just aching to help out Tibet.
So, while brute force even for China is clearly a stupid idea, I think their authoritarian style of governing leads to these types of showdowns.
When your talking about a place as oppressive as China, you don’t blame the few who fight back unless you want to look like some Nazi/communist sympathizer.
It’s good to try to stay unbiased. But, sometimes you can’t hide behind isolationist desires for non-action and stand up and say.. DOWN with Hitler, DOWN with Stalin, down with child slave labor, execution justice, media blackouts and complete cultural tailoring.
It’s like a politically correct version of the Labor Party and you blame the Tibetans for fighting back.
Why not just label them insurgents and terrorists while your at it.
Do you think British would have sailed home if we hadn’t starting shotting back. If the minutemen hadn’t used non conventional tactics , aka guerilla warfare, we’d not have stood a chance against the organized military of Britain.
There is nothing inherently unjust about resorting to violence to thwart your oppressor who used the same violence and covers it with national media.
All oppressive governments worked like this at one time and those that fought back forged the path for democracy today. What Monarchy
can you name that has free press ?
They EVEN call themselves the People’s Republic.
I think china will slowly give in to democracy or fall, so I have real worry about them in the long run. However, for the Tibetans, I can see how spending a few generations living in oppression would be worth fighting against.
Plus, what are you telling me. The Dali Lama is helping cover the murderous Tibetan rampage ?
So, someone log this Chinese spy’s IP address and report them to the FBI.
Voilence is the only means to solve the tibet issue……..
United Nation is F*****g
They never solve the issues… …. Kashmir, Pelistian, Kosovo, Sudan, Dafur, Tibet, Burma, Cuba, Sri Lanka….
many More
before you start with “china will have to give in to democracy or fall”… have you lived there, talked with the people there?
im pretty sure the huge majority would defend the government as it is now.
call it brainwashing if you want. ignorance is bliss. happy people is enough for a country to prosper
How can you prove that these photos are really from Tibet, from the recent events, and the person lie there is not faking???
The name of this website clearly showed your point, how can you prove that you are fair and objective?
I wonder what had trigger the Tibetan to start riot at this time of the year, not last year, not the year before? They could do it during 1996 Taiwan crisis. They could do it during 1998 when US bombed Chinese embassy in Belgrade. They could do it during 2001 when Chinese fighter collides with US spy plane. If the Tibetan really fed up with Chinese government, they should riot everyday like Palestinian against Israel.
1. Maybe the Tibetan exils don’t like Olympic at all. They are against Chinese Olympic committee from collecting seed of Olympic torch from Himalaya. It’s perfect ok for dislike Olympic, problem is that you shouldn’t interfere others for being like Olympic.
2. Maybe these Tibetan exils are jealous about other Tibetans lives a better live inside Tibet. What make things even worse is the depreciation of US dollar and appreciation of Chinese Yuan. Poor Tibetan exiles! Uncle Sam will raise your salary only when you bark louder.
2. Maybe DaLai’s angry for not getting what he’s asked for when negotiating the terms of surrender with Chinese government in the past years. As a way to release his anger, he released bunch of dogs to bark around the world. The problem is, you shouldn’t use other people’s blood to benefit your interest.
Dalai and Tibetan exils, why don’t you think outside the box. Your sugar daddy is really sick. It’s time to live on your own back. Stop live like human parasites!
It is truly disturbing to see fellow Americans post here with such foul language and one-sided views. As an American, I have met many people who refuse to look deeper into the cause of an issue, or consider both sides instead of treating everything as black or white. However, I do not believe all Americans are so ignorant.
I understand the reason most people here are prejudiced against China is because their government is Communist. The word itself turns off people, as the West had fought the “communists” for most of the 20th century. Any kind of issue where it’s “blank vs. Chinese government,” and automatically people are inclined to speak up for “blank.” Why? Because they’ve already got it so ingrained in their minds that the Chinese government is pure evil. Period. People have cited here on numerous occasions articles and evidence that the Chinese government have violated human rights in the past. I agree fully. But what about Tibet before the Chinese took over? How about looking up their human rights record? You’d be very shocked and quite disturbed. Were they a democracy or anything close? Once again, like I mentioned in my earlier entry, that doesn’t make what’s happening right now right. However, it does show that situations tend to be more complex than we usually give them credit for. Just because someone hasn’t yet shown you the actual pictures or given you any second opinion doesn’t mean such things don’t exist.
Most recently, the USA has occupied Iraq. Yes we did it for “their own good.” We only “had their best interests in mind.” We “freed them from the oppression of a dictator.” We killed a lot of them in the process and continue to do so, but who cares right? It was all for a noble cause. Except the Iraqis aren’t exactly grateful. But who cares we say? Those ignorant people don’t know what’s good for themselves. So the Chinese government has said the exact same thing about Tibet. Except now we denounce them. Why? It’s simple: because they are communist. Who cares if we did the same thing as them? They’re communists, and so they’re wrong and horrible and there should be no further justifications.
This is what I say when I’m disturbed my fellow Americans are so single-minded. They will accept nothing that differs from themselves or their views. And they justify this attitude with “patriotism.” “All you others who don’t agree with me are wimps, spies, or retarded.” America was built on the principles of tolerance, and now it seems so many today cannot even tolerate a slightly different opinion, even if it comes from their fellow countrymen.
Tibetans have a huge population in China, while the riot was started by only a few extremists. It will not cause a chain reaction because it simply does not gain sympathy from majorities of Chinese or local Tibetans.
I am Chinese American, been here long enough to learn both sides’ stories, governments and opposing sides. Have you ever thought about how people around the world think about us americans and our government? you guessed it right. just like how we perceived China, naive people with an evil government.
I wish they boycott Olympic, and gol all the preparation and expense in waste. Anyway athletes don’t want to participate in the polluted dump site.
the chinese have been oppressing the tibetans against their will for decades now. yes, the tibetans might have started a riot against the chinese, but it is in response to years and years of systematic oppression. the chinese response - killing a number of tibetans, perhaps as many as 100, if some claims are to be believed - is just another example of the chinese boot heel grinding down those desperately fighting for their freedom. remember Tienanmen Square?
oh, and for those of you doubting the validity of the pictures, take a look at these ones BBC saw enough truth in to put on their website: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/7303859.stm
there are 5milion Tibetans in China,thats not huge
and if USA and EU/Nato states decide to boycott Olympics still there will be 150 countries participating so…you are free to boycott.More medals for us who will be participating
real pictures of dead tibetan
http://www.familija.co.yu
Watch out, the anger flamed by your wild white westerners will eventually consume your order of the world. Did you hear that American Blacks are shouting God Dxxn America in their Sunday sermon? Did you hear the poll that more than 40% Iraqis agree to in attack Americans? Did you see your pay check shrinking and health insurance coverage vanishing? In the meantime, you still support a gigantic military and promote your fake democracy around the world with these echoing parasites who only cares about their small world.
DaLai, you’re the biggest hypocrite on the world, your’re not preaching peace but war, your action endanger your own kind as well as others. You should be ashamed yourself and stop blame your problem on the others!
Tibetan exils, Dalai is not your savior but your master, your life is his property to spare. The highest form of freedom is the freedom of thoughts and ideas, obidience to a fake god doesn’t buy your ticket to heaven!
Let’s make it clear, Tibet is our Chinese land, our ancester conquered it through their blood and sacrefice. Come to grab it with your walfare, only if you have second life to spare.
ryan- very ignorant opinion. Why not care if the israelis “steamroll” the palestinians? Where do u think theyre getting their bombs from? sending us troops to die needlessly is besides the point. u seem to have this shitty attitude of lets make a mess and let them sort it out. I know cos britain did the same to northern ireland. Just cos u fuk off home doesn’t mean the problem is solved. Israel bombed the sh!t out of lebannon for not releasing detained spies. And why the hell should they have? in any other country the same actions would have been taken. Its called national security in america. Then they bombed their bridges stopping any aid going to the civilians who were also bombed. America sided with israel. I suppose its just a classic case of customer is always right.
This is not a complex issue … there is nothing complicated about it. Tibet was a free country, was invaded by the Chinese and is occupied and colonized by them. Just like the white man colonized most of this world … but were eventually expelled, except from those areas where they outnumbered the locals … or decimated them like in Australia and New Zealand. The Chinese are following the same practice moving Chinese people to Tibet to eventually outnumber the Tibetans. The Tibetans have nothing in common with the Chinese … there language is different, there religion is different, and their culture is different. You would think that days of colonization are over … not really … Israel and China are currently actively perpetrating it with military might. Palestinians are in the news but people have forgotten Tibet. I urge the Tibetans to continue their war for liberty and I urge the Chinese to give freedom to the Tibetans … Chinese need to learn to respect others or the world will drive them behind the china wall … which is their true and original border. The Chinese have a warlord mentality and they would never see reason … by peaceful means … Tibetan monks should dump Dalai Lama and fight like the Palestenians do.
Howling Winds March 18, 2008 at 11:52 pm
why be ashamed of admitting you’re a Tibetan extremist, your word of choice has betrayed you.
A little history lesson for you, my friend:
Tibet has been a part of China for thousands of years, the World Wars and multi-national invasions overthrew the Qing dynasty, which was the legitimate Chinese government at the time, thus broke China into many regional warlords/landlords, followed by the World Wars was a civil war between the Communist party and the Nationalist party, in which the latter lost and fled to Taiwan. During that period of time, both parties claimed that they are the legitimate government to represent China, but neither had control over the entire Chinese territory. that was how Mongolia became independent. And because of that, there’s no representative from China to attend UN meetings, and the U.S. decided to give Diaoyudao(Senkaku in japanese) Islands and its surrounding sea territory to Japan. After the Communist won the civil war as well as the legitimate government body representing China in a whole, the new Chinese government then reclaimed lost territories from local warlords/landlords, which includes the ‘invasion into Tibet’ from over half a century ago that you mentioned in your post.
if i was a native american, i would be either angry or just laugh cynically.
To fellow Chinese, just stop wasting your time on the detail of facts and history for these arrogant white men anyway won’t listen. Do what’s best for us, offer your help to the fellow Chinese who were hurt and lost their lives in the brutal Tibetan riot. Offer your thank you gift to the fellow Chinese soldiers on the front line. Contribute to Chinese Red Cross and project Hope. Don’t let their lie affect your judgement and always stand up to flight!
Joejoe said: “Did you hear that American Blacks are shouting God Dxxn America in their Sunday sermon?”
To be specific, Reverend Wright said “God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human.” Taking into account that he was in the middle of a heated sermon and using charged language, he’s right. I’m an American, and I can say that I am ashamed of my country for what it’s done to oppress non-whites since its birth hundreds of years ago. Native Americans, blacks, Asians (think of those who built the railroads and of the Japanese internment camps in WWII), Latinos… if you can think of a non-white minority in America, it’s likely that they’ve been unjustly oppressed at some point and are still at the butt end of racist white actions here in America.
But that doesn’t justify what China is doing in Tibet. Yes, America has done many bad things that it should be ashamed of and that it has yet to atone for properly, but Joejoe pointing this out and criticizing it only makes it clearer that what China is doing is just as bad. It’s clear that what China is doing in Tibet is just as wrong as what the West has done to other countries throughout history.
And saying “The highest form of freedom is the freedom of thoughts and ideas” is funny, considering how information is suppressed completely in China, like here where reporters are forbidden access to Tibet to see what is truly going on. China is banning access only because it has something to hide, and it can’t make claims to defend its actions until the foreign preses is allowed in and we can at least have some glimpse of the truth.
suppressing press coverage is an established practise in crisis. just look at this thread: a few - possibly fake - pictures can incite all this discussion. now we know how western media works - entertainment and sensation-seeking. in all probability, the pictures that can be interpreted in the wrong way will be spread the most.
“just look at this thread: a few - possibly fake - pictures can incite all this discussion. now we know how western media works - entertainment and sensation-seeking.”
Getting pictures out there that show death and human destruction at the hands of a brutal government is far from “entertainment and sensation-seeking.” This is what the media should do - bring to our attention real issues that need to be addressed. Have you forgotten that photos of the carnage and injustice of American actions in the Vietnam War are what first spurred the movement to press the US government for withdrawal?
Quote “Too bad for the Chinese people as well. I’m sure their hearts are with the Tibetans…”
Unfortunately Chaim you are wrong, I’m currently working in China and NONE of the Chinese people around me seems to support Tibetans’ act. They all believe Tibet should always be a part of China and any one who supports Tibet Independence act should be considered as a separatist.
As for the claims from both sides about casualties, I don’t think we need to believe any versions of the story, this website is not an independent source either.
From my experience in China the government here is no better or worse than the US government, or any other governments around the world. Most Chinese I met are pretty happier with their leaders/government than a westerner would think.
ZW, I’m glad you stay a clear mind that you’re really ashamed of your country which is the spot on difference between you and me. I am really proud of my country. I find it a waste of time of bring facts and history to the table because you never listen. Why not just go to China and see it yourself. There are too many facts that is ignored from your western media about the minority treatment in China. In fact, they are treated with super citizenship. They don’t subject to one child policy, we Han Chinese do. They can enter collage with lower grade, we Han Chinese cannot. They are guaranteed of government job in these minority autonamous regions, we han Chinese aren’t. Even on the point of law and order, their petty crimes won’t get punished, we Han Chinese will, they can carry long knifes on the street, we Han Chinese cannot.
You really think we Chinese don’t know what’s going on over there? It’s really funny that you mentioned your media should be granted free access to these regions. Let me ask you, aren’t they report for a purpose? Since when did you see your media report China without a dyed glasses?
“From my experience in China the government here is no better or worse than the US government, or any other governments around the world. Most Chinese I met are pretty happier with their leaders/government than a westerner would think.”
The issue here isn’t whether or not the Chinese people are happy with their government.
The issue, I think, is that at least 16 people are dead, whether Chinese or Tibetan, and that they are dead because of riots against Chinese oppression of Tibet.
More people will inevitably die, both Chinese and Tibetan, if Tibet isn’t granted autonomy. The Chinese government being only as bad as the US government doesn’t matter - what matters is that people are dying and will continue to die if things aren’t resolved. And as all of the problems stem from the Tibetans chafing under Chinese rule, the only resolution would be for them to somehow gain their freedom.
“It’s really funny that you mentioned your media should be granted free access to these regions. Let me ask you, aren’t they report for a purpose? Since when did you see your media report China without a dyed glasses?”
Of course the Western media will report events from its own perspective. Everything is subjective. But with the Chinese government blocking access to the foreign press, only two perspectives are available - those of the Chinese government, and those of the Tibetan exiles. As both sides have a clear agenda and huge stake in the events in Tibet, they can by no means be expected to make reports that are even remotely objective. Allowing the foreign press into Tibet would give a much-needed third perspective.
And the fact is, despite the supposed “super citizen” rights given to minority groups in China, there are still frequent protests in Tibet against Chinese rule and now, again, bloodshed. I think it should be obvious to anyone that the Tibetans are not happy with Chinese rule, “super citizen” status and all.
The very first Lama was installed by a Chinese army, and subsequent Dalai Lamas had recognized that they were a part of China and maintained close relations with Han leaders until the day Mao came along. The Lamas, who were wealthy (and corrupt) rulers at the time feared that the new communist party would divide their land amongst the poor in Tibet. This is the birth of the “Free Tibet” movement that you hear about today.
Raised-and-educated-in-the-”fine”-schools-of-America
(for those of you who love to shout “propoganda!”
its all nice when we can criticize about a far away part of the world, especially a region that will only be associated with tourism to us. sure, “cultural genocide”. well. for people living there, a steady income and good healthcare might be more important than culture that brought them nothing but slavery until 60 years ago. but omg the culture. guess what, culture doesnt fill your stomach, it doesnt prolong your life expectancy. culture maintained a theocracy. without culture, tibet probably would just be a piece of deserted land like most parts of africa to tourists.
damn right. what is tibet to you? an exotic tourist destination. to those chinese people you are saying “free tibet” to, its part of their country.
and yes. i can assure you that most people in china will strongly oppose an overthrow of the government. why? because china has been through so much in the last two centuries. mainly inflicted by those countries that are calling out for “free tibet” now. the government might not be the best, but it grants most people stability, safety and happiness. chinese people are pround that china made it this far from what it was like at the end of WW2. chinese people are proud that china as a nation exists over two thousand years as an unity.. saying “free tibet” is directly attacking this proud.
Well, why the regular Tibetans don’t start wide spread violence against Chinese rule as the Palestinian to Isreal. As I pointed out earlier, people over there are generally happy with their live. Their are getting good income from booming tourism from both domestic travelers and abroad. Chinese are big fan of Tibetan medicine and the traders make a good fortune out of it. Their culture is truely respected in China as there are no difference in between Chinese buddhism with Tibetans’. We in Beijing goes to Tibetan temple as well as others to pray for good fortune every year during the first day of spring fesival. We repect the language of minority and setup schools to teach their children with their own language. There are even minority only universities setup for higher education.
I say the true purpose of “Boycott Olympic” is to “Hijack Olympic”.
Do you want to see how your media works? Then ask me why CNN delibrately cut off a portion of picture showing Tibetans throw rocks at passing Chinese military trucks, only displaying some others ran in the forefront? To them, only bad news is good news. Any prolong conflicts on the world garatteed their big profit and paycheck. Let’s say no war on earth, everyone lives a good live, CNN should be out of work. Remember, CNN becomes a world media when the first Gulf war broke out, it will continue to dominent if only there is war and blood on the planet of earth.
Same old story. Money and power. China wants Tibet for its resources. The people of Tibet DO NOT WANT CHINA. Tibet prays. China preys.
Tibet has a history of at least 1300 years of independence from China. In 821 China and Tibet ended almost 200 years of fighting with a treaty engraved on three stone pillars, one of which still stands in front of the Jokhang cathedral in Lhasa.
In 1949 the idealogues from the Maoist Chinese government decided to attack their Buddhist neighbors to gain more territory and power. Same old story. Just like the Mongols, the Germans, the English and the Americans. Buddhists are remarkably peaceful people. The root of Buddhism is compassion.
China wants world power. Water is the key to the future. Tibet is the key to the waters of Asia. Simple story. It will take the World to force China to give this up. Control of water is control of humanity. We are all water and we all share water. China seeks domination. The people of Tibet are simply pawns in China’s quest for power.
Tibet should be declared a World Heritage Site, the Buddhist tradition should be allowed to flourish. The study of Mind allowed to continue and the waters and resources protected for all humanity.
Wake up! We are all in this together. We all share WATER. And we are all humans and will live and die as a race. Throughout our history we have forever warred for territory, power and resources. Let’s create a new World Heritage Site on the roof of the world dedicated to all World Citizens! http://www.Changing-History.com
DaLai Lama should die in hell~he is the real evil for both Chinese and Tibetans!!!!!
It does seem worth pointing out that the American federal government does NOT represent the interests or values of the majority of Americans. Even when the system works as it should, a democratic government does not represent the values of every single citizen. The fact that the American government invaded Iraq and committed innumerable human rights violations does not mean that every American citizen condones or authorized these acts. As an American who writes my representatives, and has demonstrated against the war from the very beginning; as an American who values LIFE, LIBERTY, & EQUALITY, and who VOTES; as an American who FIGHTS against Corporate imperialism and third-world exploitation; WE HAVE THE RIGHT to SPEAK OUT against human rights violations made by other countries JUST AS MUCH as we have the right to speak out against violations committed by our own. Let it be known that my opinion is JUST as important as anyone else’s. HOWEVER we also need to be aware of WHY these protests are happening, and analyze the motivations on each side. Tibet has been occupied by China since 1951. In the intervening span of time, there have been valid accusations of genocide, along with allegations of attempts by the Peoples Republic to extinguish the culture and religious beliefs of the natives. For perspective, imagine America invading Mexico, forcing millions of our poorest people to move south, and then smashing down the roman-catholic churches and “detaining” anyone who disagreed. All in the name of “progress”. True, that example may be overgeneralized and simplified, but I don’t want to type a novel here. China is freaking out right now, because the Olympic torch will be traveling through Tibet, which leaves the door open for any number of fascinating international incidents. What we are seeing right now is China trying to tighten control over a region of oppressed and desperate people. Meanwhile, the oppressed and desperate people see this as their best chance to bring the horrors of Chinese rule to the worlds television sets. They are probably right, which is why the Chinese propaganda machine has kicked out all the foreign reporters and is painting the picture as they see it. This obviously isn’t the whole story, and it obviously isn’t the only story. I encourage everyone to do their own research BEFORE we attack each other over what’s going on. Then we can argue based on facts.
What can we learn from this situation?
It WOULD be kind of hypocritical of the American government to condemn China.. however, we PLAN on leaving. At least we HOPE we plan on leaving…
Tibetan Buddhism is non-violent, so even if they ARE violently protesting, there is probably a DAMN good reason for it. And they are probably well within their rights as humans.
China is known to keep a tight grip on the flow of information, especially when it makes them look bad. Now that we have the Olympics thrown into the mix, they must be going NUTS.
As for the ethnic Chinese, it is generally not their fault they are there, and they can’t be blamed for their governments actions. On the other hand, their presence is part of the reason that the quality of life for the native Tibetans has dropped so significantly. Once again, it is the PRC that are to blame for that. It would seem they are just being caught in the middle. I bet they are getting screwed just as hard as the natives.
What should we do? Protest, write letters, BOYCOTT, send money, PRAY PEOPLE. Just the simple act of caring can make a difference. In fact, simply digging and blogging is making more of a difference than anything else. In other words, KEEP IT UP INTERNET! WE are the ones CHANGING THE WORLD
According to your American standards of law and order, won’t the rioter on the LA street being shot at? If rioters throw rocks to National Guard troops on the street of New Orlean, won’t they be shot at? I wonder when did your media showing any picture of it? And when did you sympathize with the rioters in that occasion? I bet all of you were gasping with relieve that finally the justice was served and we can all be businese as usual.
I too want say if the picture shown are indeed the rioters, justice is served!
Quote ZW “the only resolution would be for them to somehow gain their freedom.”
Well, the word “Freedom” sometimes is not as sweet as it sounds:
Mongolia used to be part of China and went independence before Communist Party got control over China, then what? Mongolian people are now suffering from destitution and dying to be back to China to share the fruit of China’s boosting economy.
Hong Kong was sold to England 150 years ago, and if you ask whether Hongkong-nese ever felt bad about being run by a foreign government? Well 100 years ago maybe, but now, look what Hong Kong has become?
The word “Freedom” means nothing if nothing comes after it. And if you think Dalai Lama is a better ruler than the Chinese Communist Party, I ask you to go to China and then think again.
Personally I don’t think Tibet going independence will do any REAL good to Tibetans. No government can run Tibet better than the current Chinese government, a government who could feed a population of 1.3 billion people with an impressive 11% economic growth rate.
Andrew, you’re dead wrong on the leaving part. Don’t you see America is not only divided among Republic and Democrat, but also within the Democrat party and races. No matter what explanation Obama presents to general public, I say his political career is doomed, even worse than that of John Kerry. For Kerry at least he’s still a respected Senator. A veteran served his nation. Obmama is nothing but a lier, a people with double standards. He continuously lied about his relationship with his pastor. He lied about the inside compaign deal with his financial backer, who is prosecuted in federal court. He’s not a uniter, he’s a divider. With all the bad news on the Democrat side, do you really think the Democrat could win back White House? I really doubt it. If McCain wins, you guys are going to stay in IRAQ as long as it takes. Maybe your grandchildren will see the light in the end of the tunnel.
Or you can name the Iraq part of United States, immigrate white American over there and take away the Iraqi land. Drill all Iraqi oil and leave a baren land for good. With 100 year in Iraq and spend money like this, you’re forever doomed!
Would anyone have any recommendations about where I can go to find out more about this situation?
I’d like acquire a more objective and deeper understanding of what is going on, including the history of this conflict, soI can get a better sense of where the propaganda ends and the real story begins.
Is there anyone out there presenting at least a basic explanation of this situation that both sides agree is fairly accurate?
As horrible as this is I still find it hard to call China anything in light of whats happening in Iraq. We’ve killed over 1 million innocent civilians there in the name of democracy. Can we really point fingers about human rights violations?
Lets take out our own trash first….
nothing new! China at it best!
michael, I must say that the west should really sort it’s own mountain of feces into it’s appropriate receptacles before it s#!+$ so much we all drown.
In response to Jason, I subscribe to the belief that people have a right to choose their governments for themselves.
It’s clear that the Chinese government isn’t wanted by the Tibetans, and that in itself is a justification for demanding Chinese withdrawal and for protestation - yes, perhaps even violent protestation - against Chinese rule, which is, obviously, rule by oppression, rule by the sword.
If the Tibetans don’t want Chinese rule, then they have a right to do whatever they deem necessary to fight against it. Then, once China withdraws, they have a right to choose their own government. Whether that will be a return to rule under the Dalai Lama is pure conjecture at this point. That waits to be seen.
JoeJoe, when I read your words and then listen to my heart. I hear the sad echoes of the “May Fouth Movement”.
So 7 photos. Until they show us photos of more than 16 different people, there is absolutely no proof of more than 16 people dying.
Quote Joejoe “If McCain wins, you guys are going to stay in IRAQ as long as it takes. Maybe your grandchildren will see the light in the end of the tunnel.”
Quote Dingo “As horrible as this is I still find it hard to call China anything in light of whats happening in Iraq. We’ve killed over 1 million innocent civilians there in the name of democracy. Can we really point fingers about human rights violations?”
Maybe the US will remain bogged down in Iraq, and, yes, there’s no way around it - the decision to invade Iraq was 100% wrong, resulting in the deaths of thousands of innocents. But the mistakes of the US government do not justify atrocities on the part of the Chinese government. Their imperialistic domination of Tibet is just as wrong as the US invasion of Iraq, and just as unjustifiable.
microraptor March 19, 2008 at 3:59 am
if both sides could agree on something, why would there be a riot?
like many chinese americans or people familiar with this issue, we tend to have a different opinion than the general american public, which get to hear only one side of the story. the best way to learn this matter would be going to China, talk to Chinese people and listen to their opinions of what’s happening in their country. and i suggest you not to mention tibetans or taiwanese as different nationalities than chinese, because that is like saying texans or californians are not americans. Most, if not all, Chinese will take that as an insult. Good Luck with your research
You American hypocrits, while you are all complaining about how Chinese military is shooting at rioters, why don’t you take a deep look at atrocities done by American soldiers in Iraq, or Israelis to Palestinians. How about Dafur? It seems like it’s the media, not your personal conviction, is guiding all your hate toward the country your leader wants you to hate.
zw, I found it ironic to see how you compare US foreign policy with China’s domestic policy. We didn’t invade any country, Tibet was, is and always shall be part of China. Tibet issue is our domestic issues. When a country setup diplomatic relationship with another country, it’s a norm of international law that the country being accepted shall have its the national boundary respected. China and its current government is accepted by nations around the world. Therefore its sovereignty shall be accepted and respected. Only one reason why your Americans always forget about that is because most of your high school graduates couldn’t even name the country neighboring North Dakoda.
Only ignorance population elected the dummist president on earth, not once, but twice!
Let’s ask fans of American Idol to see if he/she really cares about China. I bet a high percentage of them couldn’t even tell where it’s on the World Map. Doesn’t they care about Tibetan people? Never heard about it! Does they know Dalai Lama? Maybe he’s another celebrity like Richard Gere. It’s the Chinese people who really cares about Tibet, and working together with locals to build a prosperous society along side with our booming economy.
You’re world’s mightiest country on the world, yet your own infrastructure is decaying. Mind your own business, would you?
You’re spending billions dollar on Iraq while your health care system becomes less affordable to general public. Mind your own business, would you?
Quote ZW “It’s clear that the Chinese government isn’t wanted by the Tibetans,”
It’s ONLY clear Chinese government isn’t wanted by Tibetan Extremists/Separatists, Dalai Lama and off course, you ZW.
But is it really the will of majority Tibetans to force China out of Tibet? 60 years ago may be yes, but today, do Tibetans really want to sacrifice peace/rapid economic growth for a vague, un-promised concept of freedom/democracy? I really doubt that.
Quote ZW “and that in itself is a justification for demanding Chinese withdrawal and for protestation - yes, perhaps even violent protestation - against Chinese rule, which is, obviously, rule by oppression, rule by the sword.”
Firstly no one is saying the current Chinese government is perfect, Americans have enjoyed their democracy for over 200 years but the Chinese only finished their domestic war like 50 years ago, when a country is still struggling to provide for 1.3 billion people, you expect “democracy” to function perfectly like US/UK or any other developed countries?
If you’ve been to China, you’ll see China is changing rapidly, not only economically, but politically as well.
Ten years ago when I first visited China, there were only a couple of newspaper, run by the government off course. Today if you go to major cities like Beijing, Shenzhen or Shanghai, you feel like you are in a city no different than New York, London or any other FREE city in any country.
Secondly no one is saying Tibetans enjoy the same right as Chinese do at the moment, it’s still a long way to go and Tibetans should still fight. But the best way and maybe the only way, is through non-violent methods.
The bottom line is: You want China to withdraw from Tibet, you are being unrealistic. Even Dalai Lama himself is only asking for full autonomy now (Which is the currently happening in Hong Kong). Violent clashes now in Tibet only